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btimm  
3 Mar 2010 10:03 | Quote
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
United States
Lessons: 2
Licks: 1
Karma: 16
So I think I may have grasped something in my studies, but would like assurance or of course any additional information is always welcome! I have been trying to grasp modes lately and was struggling to get the difference between something like C ionian and G mixolydian for example. It's the same exact notes, just a differen starting point, and it was pretty confusing as to what the heck the difference was.

Is it true that the difference is not in the scale or solo using the scale, but in the chord it is being played over? So if you played G mixolydian over a C chord, then it isn't actually G mixolydian at all? It's still just C ionian? But if you played a C major scale of a G chord, then it becomes G mixolydian and has a different sound to it than compared to a major scale? I think I am getting it, but not quite sure.

Also, why would you use the various modes? I know this is a very broad guestion, but I am kinda just looking for a broad beginner type answer. Like I know 7th chords are used often for blues, is there a similar correlation between modes and musical styles?

Thanks for any responses!!
Guitarslinger124  
3 Mar 2010 10:14 | Quote
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
United States
Lessons: 12
Licks: 42
Karma: 38
Moderator
Well to answer your first question, it is the intervals between the notes that make each mode sound different, even if they use the same notes. Take C Ionian and A Aeolian. They both have the same notes. But C Ionian starts with C and A Aeolian starts with A and the scale progress differently in terms of intervals from there. If you play them, they sound completely different.

Check out my response in this post for more clarification: Click Here

The point is, different modes give you different sounds. You play the mode that best suits the sound that you are trying to achieve and you can even modify your mode if have to. There are no rules, only guide lines. Best of luck.

Rock on!
carlsnow  
3 Mar 2010 11:36 | Quote
Joined: 29 Apr 2009
United States
Lessons: 2
Karma: 23
POST WAS SUPPOSED TO BEGIN WITH :

Guitarslinger124 says:
There are no rules, only guide lines.

The above easily wins the RAWK! award for 'best quote/advice of the month' , Guitarslinger124 !
Sorry but the "all expenses paid: 'Rock 'n' Roll Cruise & Private Gilbert/Vai/Zappa (YES! I Brought him back to life just for you)-Lessons + all you can eat buffet" offer has been deemed prohibitively expensive, so you'll have to settle fer a Karmatic boost ;~) !

...and, btimm; i'd like to add that along with the 'Modes discussed' (Major Scale) there are over 5 over 10 over... many more 'modal structures' awaiting you on your sonic quest!
[UsedCarSalesmanCs]"C'mon in , C'mon in! Supplies are unlimited!" --> "we've got a nice new one-owner Harmonic-Minor mode a lil old lady only played on Sundays!" --"but wait! there’s more!--'Melodic Major'-'Melodic Minor' and MANY MORE await you at 'Big Ed's Used Scales and Modes' ... Sooo Much Moooore!!! We’re open late and on Sundays ComeOnDown![/UsedCarSalesmanCs]

But seriously :) aside from the grand advice and studies our very own "Guitarslinger124"


I have a few more to offer (but can't seem to get on the site as lesson's (Hmmm, Jazzy?, Hmm, Phippy McPhipperson? [help-Pls])

So till I can get them ON Here @ AGC : (which I really really wanna do but dunn how)
From The ‘Teaching’ section of www.carlsnow.com .. I submit , fer yer perusal

MODE-US MAXIMUS!

Have Fun! Get Sore! Have MORE Fun!

“Scaling Up” – 5-Sting Scale Studies of The Major, Melodic-Minor, Harmonic-Minor & Melodic Scales, Containing the Seven Modes of each scale and choosing not to repeat either the High or Low ‘E’ redundancies.
Parts I & II consist of running F-Ionian to ‘lsquo;E’-Locrian (a full neck!) in this fashion and contain the full modal runs and no-high/no-low-‘E’ runs with MP3 aides and PDF + Word Document Downloads.

->‘Scaling Up’ - 5-String Major Scale Study #1
’F’ to ‘F’ Modally with no 1st (High-‘E’) String
This is the 1st edition to a series of deep-studies of modal play called ‘Scaling Up’. The 5-string format is nothing new but was reminded to me while watching a Richard Lloyd video, as he was playing F-Ionian this way. I decided to take the old as new and follow suit as it is quite true, and quite understated that the E string (1st or 6th) is or becomes redundant and repetitive in sound and function giving the 1st and 6th strings too much (perceived) power as a result.
We will start in the usual way: beginning at the first fret of the 6th string and move upwards. The removal of the doubled E-string will make you concentrate more on the character and movement of the mode you are working on. We will start in F Major, ‘Scaling’ it modally though all seven degrees. We will begin ‘missing’ the High E and end ‘missing’ the Low E. When we reach the Harmonic-Minor Mode the tab will offer only the ‘lost 1st string method’ as by then you should know the territory quite well.
This exercise is to be played both up and down the neck in equal measure with the realization that the intervocalic relationship of 1’s (Ionian) 1st string and 2’s (Dorian) 6th string is constant.

5-String Major Scale Study #1
http://sixstringrevival.com/lessons/5StringScale1.html

Scaling Up 'Harmonic Major' (I-VII)
http://sixstringrevival.com/lessons/ScalingUpHarmonicMajor.html

Scaling Up 'Harmonic Minor (I-VII)
http://sixstringrevival.com/lessons/ScalingUpHarmonicMinor.html

Scaling Up 'Melodic Minor' (I-VII)
http://sixstringrevival.com/lessons/ScalingUpMelodicMinor.html

250 or so - Scaling Exercise & Hand-Cramper (okay NOT 'Modal' ... Just mean lol)
http://sixstringrevival.com/lessons/250scales.html

A look at modes - Modes and Chord Shapes –
In this lesson we are looking at the different major modes and the chord shapes that are found inside them and how these shapes can be moved.
http://sixstringrevival.com/lessons/alookatmodes.html

‘Scaling Up’ - 5-String Major Scale Study #1
’F’ to ‘F’ Modally with no 1st (High-‘E’) String
This is the 1st edition to a series of deep-studies of modal play called ‘Scaling Up’. The 5-string format is nothing new but was reminded to me while watching a Richard Lloyd video, as he was playing F-Ionian this way. I decided to take the old as new and follow suit as it is quite true, and quite understated that the E string (1st or 6th) is or becomes redundant and repetitive in sound and function giving the 1st and 6th strings too much (perceived) power as a result.
We will start in the usual way: beginning at the first fret of the 6th string and move upwards. The removal of the doubled E-string will make you concentrate more on the character and movement of the mode you are working on. We will start in F Major, ‘Scaling’ it modally though all seven degrees. We will begin ‘missing’ the High E and end ‘missing’ the Low E. When we reach the Harmonic-Minor Mode the tab will offer only the ‘lost 1st string method’ as by then you should know the territory quite well.
This exercise is to be played both up and down the neck in equal measure with the realization that the intervocalic relationship of 1’s (Ionian) 1st string and 2’s (Dorian) 6th string is constant.

…and thanks again to Guitarslinger124 for giving good advice, serving this great nation, and spurring me to write more on-line lessons (been a ruff Mo lost 2 good friends so..) it feels nice to get my get up n go back! :)
And….
As always…
RAWK!
Cs


Global Disclaimer :
Carl Snow is an old, jaded & slightly bitter old man who cannot be held accountable for anything, much less his opinionatedly opinionated opinions or those of his imaginary friends. We sincerely apologize if this Carl Snow and/or its behavior have infected you or others with its ugly brain and its juices.

PS-Again ... someone PLEASE help this nasty lil Webidiot git these here lessons on AGC ... purty please with a Big Muff & Cry-Baby Wah-Wah on top?
JazzMaverick  
3 Mar 2010 11:46 | Quote
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
United Kingdom
Lessons: 24
Licks: 37
Karma: 47
Moderator
It's sorted now :) As for the lessons thingy Carl, I'll explain that to you later if you'd like? E.g. Chat or PM
carlsnow  
3 Mar 2010 12:01 | Quote
Joined: 29 Apr 2009
United States
Lessons: 2
Karma: 23
JazzMaverick says:
It's sorted now :) As for the lessons thingy Carl, I'll explain that to you later if you'd like? E.g. Chat or PM


thank you thank you thank you!!! xxoo I'll bug ya chat/pm ... whatever.

and thanks again! YOU DOTH RAWK!

RAWK!
Cs



gx1327  
3 Mar 2010 13:03 | Quote
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
United States
Karma: 9
btimm says:
I have been trying to grasp modes lately and was struggling to get the difference between something like C ionian and G mixolydian for example. It's the same exact notes, just a differen starting point, and it was pretty confusing as to what the heck the difference was.


i have asked this exact same question on these forums at least 3 times and have yet to get a for sure response (although this thread is the best) basically my understand is that it's relative to what's playing underneath.

so YEAH, if you play C major and start/finish at the root it sounds "different" than if you start/finish at the 5th note. BUT, most solos i've heard don't consist of someone just going up and down the scale. a solo contains a mix-mash of notes from within a scale. so in other words, you aren't starting or ending on any particular note. you are just playing notes within a field.

so if you look at it that way, what IS the difference between C Maj and G Mix? if you are playing a solo that comprises of notes from one scale you are also playing a solo that comprises of notes from the other scale. i THINK the difference is how it sounds played over chords from different keys. but soloing is different than playing scales.
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