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Do you think Metalcore is metal/ does metalcore make you angry?

Music and Bands
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aterrell  
20 May 2008 13:18 | Quote
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I'm sure its an opinion thing, but I don't consider metalcore to be metal. The vocals aren't sang and they replace solos with breakdowns (in most cases). Isn't metal supposed to have solos (I know Black Metal would be an exception, but its still metal). Also, you can't listen to a metalcore song and go "this is probably so-and-so" like you can do Blink-182 and Iron Maiden and such. It frustrates me when someone puts in under the umbrella term metal with thrash and death metal and other original, REAL metal. And on top of that, they call the screams like "Death growls" and something black metal-ish. It was derived from it, but they're knockoffs... to be continued (yes I'm mad)
Veqq  
20 May 2008 14:21 | Quote
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Not one bit... Metalcore, as by definition is basically Punks trying to play Metal. Problem being, they are not actually punks, they are emos, all the punks are playing punk, or cross over...
bobby23jones  
20 May 2008 15:29 | Quote
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1. Metalcore can pretty much be summed up as metal influenced hardcore punk.

2. To be completely fair, metal isn't required to have guitar solos, even though it's pretty much a standard. And black metal is known to have solos, especially in the earlier years.

3. As for the metalcore vocals, I've just heard them called screams. Death growls are death metal. Anybody claiming that metalcore uses death growls has a misconception as to the meaning of the term.
GuitarBoy666  
20 May 2008 16:04 | Quote
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Canada
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Anything with 'core' on the end isn't really a true genre.
Metalcore is okay though, I like some of it, but real metal is the stuff that most of you grew up with, Guns n Roses, Metallica, etc
Doz  
20 May 2008 18:10 | Quote
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Oh God, so ignorant minded, so many of you. Metalcore is metal meets hardcore punk. How can it not be a true genre, guitarboy? It's a type of music. You state your opinion as fact when you seem to know so little.

Veqq: that's not the definition, and no, it's not emos. Do Killswitch Engage look like emos to you?

Aterall: You go find that metal rulebook yeah, then report back. You are not the authority on music genres, you do not get to determine whether metal music has solos, and you seem to have little understanding of the type of vocals so let's not go there... and do you not understand that the more you know of a certain genre the more you can pick things out? If you're so ignorant and dismissive of metalcore then you're bound not to be able tell which band plays what.

In my opinion, metalcore takes a lot of skill and there's lots of justificatin for it being a respected genre. Instead of getting mad over people playing, listening and talking about the music they like let's try this: let people listen to whatever the hell they want.
telecrater  
20 May 2008 18:27 | Quote
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Wow, I'm confused....I doubt i would like it but you got my attention.

so way back when i was in grade school i stole a cassette tape of Suicidal Tendencies first album (yes I mean tape and Album 'cuz this what it was released on) out of some car. Now by bobby23jones definition i would have called them Metalcore. ST did change their sound right after this record but it really was a great tape. I would like to explore some other music like this.

so are there any other examples of Metalcore other than Killswitch Engage? I think it's time to put my jerry garcia disc's aside and revisit some metal-ishous-punk-alliiated-thrashing-funk-core tunes.

In all seriousness i would like some specific examples.
GuitarBoy666  
20 May 2008 18:28 | Quote
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Canada
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LOL My friend put that, dude. He doesn't even listen to metal either, he listens to mainstream, whatever is on the radio and the slightest bit rock. And I can't delete it either lol.

Um but I do like metalcore, I don't know enough about it to actually say much on it other than I've heard that two bands I really like - All That Remains, and Shadows Fall, are metalcore... Are they really? I don't really label music. I just call it metal, punk, country, rap, pop, etc. I don't get into all this metalcore, acid metal, speed metal, thrash metal, hair metal, etc. Though I know it they are real genres, I just call it metal.
telecrater  
20 May 2008 18:30 | Quote
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lol, wow look Suicidal Tendencies has references to Mealcore

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metalcore
Veqq  
20 May 2008 18:39 | Quote
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To be honest, Kill Switch Engage and Suicidal Tendencies are both Cross over in my book... (ST more then Kill Switch)

When Metal and Hardcore meet, they make Thrash... Or Cross Over, it depends on what the people were before hand... (not always but for the sake of this...)

By Metalcore I you meant: Atreyu, As I lay Dying, Dillinger Escape plan...

Kill Switch Engage don't have those screaming vocals with the clean ones laced under. Also, on the 2 songs of theirs I've heard there weren't any break downs... They were just playing fast the whole way... And their song structure was far more metalic...

Sadly though, I sense this will become a flaming thread. I've seen enough of these already. :/ But it's in my nature, and other so... >:)
Doz  
20 May 2008 19:06 | Quote
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Killswitch to beatdowns (if that's what you're mean by breakdown). Plus, metalcore is based on the whole music, not just the vocals. I wouldn't call Suicidal Tendencies metalcore though, no.
aterrell  
21 May 2008 13:11 | Quote
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I apologize for breaking off; I had to leave for a little bit. Okay, I know there are exceptions for every rule, standard or however you want to put it. Some metalcore bands have solos. I'm not even raggin' on metalcore, so all you metal(core)heads out there can chill out. Metalcore has some very complicated riffs that I wish could be followed by a chill-bump-inducing solo. Bobby23jones is trying to tell me black metal has solos. I wrote a freakin paper breaking a lot of rock genres. I studied my brains out. No, I'm not the authority, but I did a hell of a lot of listening and reading to pick out the slightest differences I could find. True black metal (most "black" metal or "death" metal bands out today are what are referred to as blackened death metal) do not have solos. I've read about instances where black metal bands(Kanwulf from Nargaroth particularly) rag on "black" metal bands for doing solos. Oh, I also realize that metalcore is a mix of hardcore punk and metal, so people can stop posting that. I (personally, not the book, just my opinion) think metalcore is not metal, just by aspects I've found to be typical of metal bands. And just for my enlightenment, I would like for some of you who I assume think I'm an idiot (ignorance is not stupidity), list some different styles and sounds between metalcore bands (And don't say Killswitch or Atreyu or bands that sing; I'm talkin' the screamin'-through-the-whole-song-metalcore bands.
aterrell  
21 May 2008 13:12 | Quote
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I almost forgot! It sounds like I hate metalcore. I don't. I just hate it when people call it metal.
bobby23jones  
21 May 2008 14:10 | Quote
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aterrell says:
Bobby23jones is trying to tell me black metal has solos. I wrote a freakin paper breaking a lot of rock genres. I studied my brains out. No, I'm not the authority, but I did a hell of a lot of listening and reading to pick out the slightest differences I could find. True black metal (most "black" metal or "death" metal bands out today are what are referred to as blackened death metal) do not have solos.

Mayhem had some solos when Euronymous was still the guitarist. Burzum has some solos. Etc, etc. I'm not saying that solos in black metal are the norm. They're rare. However, they aren't non-existent. Black metal is so experimental and varied that it's very hard to definitively say what black metal is or isn't.
Cata34  
21 May 2008 15:35 | Quote
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omg Ive seen this argument so many times. You can debate what "genre" many bands are, but in all honesty does it really matter? If you like it you like it... does it matter whether you call it "metal" or "metalcore". ALOT of music these days bends the rules as far as genre goes.
GuitarBoy666  
21 May 2008 15:36 | Quote
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Cata34 says:
omg Ive seen this argument so many times. You can debate what "genre" many bands are, but in all honesty does it really matter? If you like it you like it... does it matter whether you call it "metal" or "metalcore". ALOT of music these days bends the rules as far as genre goes.


I agree with you. Fuck labeling music. Just listen to it. It's either some form of metal, or it's something else. I don't worry about the labeling shit. Too many sub-genres of metal.
aterrell  
22 May 2008 13:14 | Quote
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bobby23jones says:
They're rare. However, they aren't non-existent. Black metal is so experimental and varied that it's very hard to definitively say what black metal is or isn't.


I know there are exceptions to every rule. I'm just saying that, as a whole, black metal doesn't have solos.
league  
23 May 2008 23:19 | Quote
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True what guitarboy said anything with "core" at the end is not a true Genre. I tried out for a metalcore band or grindcore and I did not like their music. I was so desperate but they lived too far.
Cata34  
24 May 2008 00:26 | Quote
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league says:
True what guitarboy said anything with "core" at the end is not a true Genre. I tried out for a metalcore band or grindcore and I did not like their music. I was so desperate but they lived too far.


Ok sure it may not be a true "genre" but that doesn't mean it's not music. If someone likes the music it doesn't matter what "genre" it is. In todays day and age genre is meaningless.
Doz  
24 May 2008 06:58 | Quote
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How is it not a true genre? A genre is, by dictionary definition, a catagory of artistic composition. Any type of music can fit into a genre (even if it takes creating a new name for it).

And besides, solos aren't completely nonexistant in metalcore.
league  
24 May 2008 12:18 | Quote
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True Doz. What would you call this music then? Maybe Emo (seriously) Rock.
Doz  
24 May 2008 15:45 | Quote
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I don't get you, are you asking me what I'd call metalcore?

I'd call it metalcore.
highonbodominflames  
30 May 2008 10:19 | Quote
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Most metalcore bands arent emo if thats wht your saying we have avenged sevenfold to thatnk for the metalcore emo confusion. bullet for my valentine has been known to throw in some pretty crazy solos into their music. A life once lost is characterized as metalcore and they should def be considered metal
Afro_Raven  
30 May 2008 11:02 | Quote
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Sounds to me like all you guys need to shut the hell up and listen to some REAL MAN's MUSIC!!! Try 'La-La Play Guitar' by The Teletubbies on for size - that should have all you girls wetting your knickers at the sheer complexity and brutality of tubby-metal.

Afro
highonbodominflames  
30 May 2008 12:07 | Quote
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hey dont get on to me man im just makin sure no ones miss informed.
BodomBeachTerror  
30 May 2008 12:09 | Quote
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Veqq says:
When Metal and Hardcore meet, they make Thrash...


actually thrash WAS a crossover from punk and new wave of british heavy metal. not really anymore tho, thrash is pretty much dead :'(

what really bugs me is when people say bands like Linkin Park is metal... and then say Slipknot ISNT.
GuitarBoy666  
30 May 2008 14:41 | Quote
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Afro_Raven says:
Sounds to me like all you guys need to shut the hell up and listen to some REAL MAN's MUSIC!!! Try 'La-La Play Guitar' by The Teletubbies on for size - that should have all you girls wetting your knickers at the sheer complexity and brutality of tubby-metal.

Afro


lawl

Yeah BBT I agree, Linkin Park is like rap rock, Slipknot is Nu-Metal.
blackholesun  
30 May 2008 14:49 | Quote
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I think Afro's been listening to metalcore and it's made him angry lol.

But I agree, if people are calling Linkin Park metal then Slipknot definately are. I don't particually like either to be honest.
BodomBeachTerror  
30 May 2008 14:55 | Quote
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i personally think slipknot is probly the most metal modern band, even tho its "nu" metal
GuitarBoy666  
30 May 2008 15:33 | Quote
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Five Finger Death Punch is a band that was formed in like '95 and I guess they are kinda Nu Metal or something. They are really good though, pretty heavy.
BBT I think you might like them.
BodomBeachTerror  
30 May 2008 15:48 | Quote
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k, i'll check em out =)
league  
31 May 2008 22:56 | Quote
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THrash is is not hardcore and Metal. BodomBeachTerror is right although I dont agree Slipknot is 100% metal they do have some Metal elements. Metal is a pure thing.
BodomBeachTerror  
31 May 2008 22:59 | Quote
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okay, some of their songs are kinda alternative.. but some of them are total metal
ThePusher  
31 May 2008 23:00 | Quote
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Yeah Slipknow is the epitamy of NuMetal and remember there is no one thing that can be called Metal metal is in every kind of music
Doz  
31 May 2008 23:01 | Quote
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I wouldn't say every kind of music... I'm sure that's a typo though Pusher.
GuitarBoy666  
1 Jun 2008 09:37 | Quote
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Who the hell is Slipknow? Aha yeah I'm sure it's a typo too.

As Heavy: The Story Of Metal said;
Today guitar solos are replaced by breakdowns and Drop C tunings.

Nu Metal is still metal, imo, but it's just not as pure what we had 20 years ago with Maiden, Priest, Sabbath, Dio, etc.
Doz  
1 Jun 2008 09:54 | Quote
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But it's common sense to know that it's not going to be as 'pure' as earlier metal.
GuitarBoy666  
1 Jun 2008 10:24 | Quote
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Yep, very true, Doz.

Sometimes it depends on what *you* consider metal.
espltd18201  
9 Mar 2010 01:49 | Quote
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Granted, metalcore originated as a Punk meets metal type of genre, but it has since drastically evolved. You have your underoath,poisin the well, bullet for my valentine, which all do seem a little emo. Then you have bands like atreyu,killswitch engage and avenged sevenfold, that are kind of main stream. I dont really like any of the bands listed above except for every time i die. But then you have an outstanding number of really good metalcore bands such as august burns red,born from pain,emmure,god forbid,the human abstract,bloodsimple,protest the hero,the red chord,threat signal,war of ages...the list is endless..many of them DO have solos. you really cant say that metalcore isnt real metal, and then say that death metal is..that would kind of be hypocritical, but I do love death metal as well. Anyway, point being, you cant let a few sour apples ruin a whole race.
btimm  
9 Mar 2010 06:41 | Quote
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meh, I neevr understood why various genres need to be broken down into 136 subgenres. It is what it is, which is music. And hearing that a band that rag on other bands for doing solos or anything like that is trivial and immature. You don't have anything better to do than rag another band? Seems weak imo.
vincejonesiii  
9 Mar 2010 08:18 | Quote
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lol we brought this thread from the dead ... and metalcore calms me down and

a good example of Good metalcore is for the fallen dreams
you can understand what hes singing
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