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Help with progression and scales

Beginners
J.M.P.A.  
16 Mar 2008 19:58 | Quote
Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Karma: 1
The progression for a major chord or key is that?

KEY I ii iii IV V vi vii
C C Dm Em F G Am Bm
D D Em F#m G A Bm C#m
E E F#m G#m A B C#m D#m
F F Gm Am Bb C Dm Em
G G Am Bm C D Em F#m
A A Bm C#m D E F#m G#m
B B C#m D#m E F# G#m A#m

And for minor chord or key is that?

KEY i ii III iv v VI VII
Cm Cm Dm Eb Fm Gm Ab Bb
Dm Dm Em F# Gm Am Bb C#
Em Em Fm G Abm Bbm Cb D
Fm Fm Gm Ab Bbm Cm Db Eb
Gm Gm Am Bb Cm Dm Eb F
Am Am Bm C Dm Em F G
Bm Bm C#m D Em F#m G A

If is that so in the Lesson

SCALES/MODES PART 1 - BY BODOM


I ii iii IV V vi vii I
Ionian-Dorian-Phrygian-Lydian-Mixolydian-Aeolian-Locrian-Ionian

that is for major chords and for minor chords will be

i ii III iv v VI VII
Aeolian-Locrian-Ioian-Dorian-Phrygian-Lydian-Mixolydian

Because for the Key of C major is the same for A minor.
Can explain if I am correct. Thanks
KicknGuitar  
17 Mar 2008 19:44 | Quote
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
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KEY I ii iii IV V vi vii

C C Dm Em F G Am Bm

Is for the Major Scale. Take note of the Capital and lowercasing of intervals. A capital refers to a Major chord, a lowercase refers to a minor.

The pattern (without the root note) is,

I ii iii IV V vi vii
Maj Min Min Maj Dom Min Dim
(Maj) (Min)

Now apply any Major scale's notes to this, for example, C Major would be,

I ii iii IV V vi vii
C Maj D Min E Min F Maj G Dom A Min B Dim
(Maj) (Min)


The Scale/Mode Lesson is NOT about chords, it is about the structure of a scale. (I've been meaning to write out a explanation of Modes and how they are used since it's easy to ignore your ignorance of it).

In a quick explanation,
C Major and A minor are scales that have a different order of half and whole steps, but share them at the same time. (For a more in depth explanation see,
"http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/lesson.php?id=26")

Here is the C Major scale,

Interval: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8(1)
Steps: W W H W W W H
Note: C D E F G A B C

We take the sixth interval from it to start the Relative Minor scale,

Interval: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 2 3 4 5
Steps: W W H W W W H W W H W W
Note: C D E F G A B C D E F G A
Interval: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8


See how the two have the same number and types of steps? It is, in a simplistic approach, just starting a scale on a different interval in the Major scale (Ionian Mode).

Take This concept and apply it to modes, A mode is just another scale that incorporates a similar pattern of steps as another scale. "A scale within a scale."
In this case, The Minor scale(Aeolean Mode) comes from within the Major scale(Ionian Mode). Apply this concept to the other 5 modes.

So Does A Minor contain C Major's notes?
J.M.P.A.  
17 Mar 2008 20:37 | Quote
Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Karma: 1
Thanks I understand more of the patterns of the scales I need some study of this and practice to know more it .

THANKS.
EMB5490  
17 Mar 2008 20:54 | Quote
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couple questions first, most imposrtant: what are chord progressions? 2nd: what do the I ii iii iv v vi...ect mean i know they mean 1, 2, 3... but what do they mark? 3rd:how does the key ur in afeect the notes u play? 4th: what do all the diff types of scales mean like dorian, lorian, phynyrddorian, lol anything with an "ian" at the end pegamegfemaderian lol. 5th: is ther any diff between major or minor besides the notes, like is ther a pattern? like one has one less note or somthing? prechalate the help guys, those are som questions ive been wonderin.
Notim  
17 Mar 2008 22:10 | Quote
Joined: 08 Dec 2007
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or someone can play music with out any understanding of any scales,or theory, and play music because its in their soul,WTF is ian ? scales?I don't mean to be a ass but bro's my opinion is there is not a wrong way to play a musical instrument and to Tech it you are wasting your time because you could be playing your instrument.
Skold  
17 Mar 2008 22:22 | Quote
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
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I have absolutely no idea what all that means. I don't know jack shit about scales other than the first position Major and Minor's (and the pentatonic), but I do know what good music is. Every time I write music, I do it with my heart, not my brain.
KicknGuitar  
17 Mar 2008 22:47 | Quote
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One thing I forgot to include was Modes come down to their roots. From a change in the starting interval, the overall feeling of the mode changes. Major and Minor scales are actually two modes themselves. Most people refer to the Major scale to compare the rest of the modes. So why does the Major Scale(Ionian Mode) sound happy and the Minor Scale(Aeolean Mode) sound sad? The change in the starting interval, when compared to the Major scale(Ionian Mode). See my upper post when we figure out the relative minor, and how it's simply copying steps starting at a different interval.

1Chord progression is simply a series of chords played in a specific order. It's a general term
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chord_progression
2the Roman Numerals "I, ii, iii, IV..." and "1, 2, 3, 4" are called intervals. They are a way of ordering notes, and at times, to refer to what kind of note. For a very specific explanation of how they are used see "The Many Faces of Intervals: An Interval Intro to Quality and Size"
3Here's A-G-C's definition, "key - The basis of musical sounds in a piece. Each key uses the notes and chords of the corresponding major scale. The key is named after the tonic (e.g. the tonic in the key of A is A). " Feel free to search the glossary page to define certain terms, "Glossary"http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/guitar_chords_glossary.php
When saying "Key," you can refer to two things, the general statement that the note is the tonic (The Key of G, G is the tonic), or specifically, the tonic and it's scale(The key of G Major, G is the tonic, G Major is the scale).
To answer your question, yes, to an extent the key tells you what specific notes to play.
4Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian and so on are scales, except they share a pattern. They are called Modes, I'd suggest wiking Modes in music, since I don't really have a lesson for this.
5As i've been pointing out The Minor scale (Aeolean Mode) shares the structure of the Major scale (Ionian mode).



Major-
Interval: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 2 3 4 5
Steps: W W H W W W H W W H W W
Note: C D E F G A B C D E F G A
Minor-
Interval: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Here you can see what they share,
(1) The share similar steps ( Minor starts two steps before Major), (2) They share the same notes, What notes are in the C Major Scale? What's in the A Minor scale?

Hope this helps.

Notim says:
to Tech it you are wasting your time

Chances are no one would know jack if someone didn't teach. The idea is to open up someone to something they would not have learned on their own. One, you become a more rounded individual, two, you're not as ignorant, three you may find a new love in the topic.

Don't be so close minded, theory is quite a powerful tool for a musician. Not everyone needs, it, but not everyone can do without it. In fact, theory can really help your playing if you've ever studied it.

Actually, one of my close friends is a genius in music as well as other aspects. he never studied music theory, and had always played music since he was a kid. He's become even more amazing thanks to him studying music in college, opening him up to how it works, and how to make it work, and how to break the rules.

Creating music doesn't require you to know theory, but it doesn't hurt to know it.
Doz  
18 Mar 2008 10:36 | Quote
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I'm not sure what Notim is trying to say... but I think he's against learning theory? Theory is in everything. People learn theory so they can express themselves better... it doesn't take away your musical soul if you learn something new.

That's like saying learning your countries language means you can't express your opinion as easily. If anything it's all easier after the learning is done.
EMB5490  
18 Mar 2008 14:59 | Quote
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lol i think u need music theroy to get to thet next step of accomplishment.

TY VERY VERY VERY much bout tht, never understood tht stuff.
i still kinda dont but i understand the basics and the basis now. ill just clear the rest up with my teacher TY VERY MUUCH!
Notim  
18 Mar 2008 16:48 | Quote
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No Doz thats not what I'm saying at all not even close and if you assume thats what I am saying it's not worth explaining and Kick did I say teach no I didnt I said Tech big diffrence to tech it is to make things more complicated then they are so really I'm not the one thats closed minded or ignorent am I
bodom  
18 Mar 2008 18:37 | Quote
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@ EMB5490
I will try and answer your questions as short as posible. If you want more details Id suggest checking out the lesson section.
Ok here we go.

Question one: What are chord progressions?
Answer: Any chord combination. e.g. Cmajor to Fmajor.

Question2: What do the I ii iii iv v vi...ect mean
Answer:a) These are whats used to show major and minor.So if its caps e.g. I that means its Major. If its lower case e.g. i then its minor.
b) Also its used to show the chord number of the KEY you are in.
So if you are in the KEY of C the I chord is C Major the ii chord is D minor. (For more on this read some lessons,KEYS,CHORDS)

(They can also mean other things but im sticking to chords here.)
Question3: How does the key ur in affect the notes u play?
Answer: Each KEY contains certian notes. (I have a chart in my lessons)
If you you play any other notes besides these ones then you are no longer in that KEY.
So if you can only play certian notes that means you can only play certian chords. Agian ffor more info check out the lessons.

Question4: What do all the diff types of scales mean.
Answer: This actually takes a bit a explianing so I think I will get started on the second half of the lesson.
Basicly in a scale you have certian notes in a certian order. These names help people know what notes are played and in what order.

Question5:Is there any diff between major or minor besides the notes, like is there a pattern?
Answer: Yes there are different patterns between Major and minor. Also one dosent have any more or less notes than the other. Id check out the lessons
for this question there are a few that explain the difference between maor and minor.
EMB5490  
18 Mar 2008 18:58 | Quote
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ty all, im going to the lessons
KicknGuitar  
19 Mar 2008 01:52 | Quote
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Haha, thank you Bodom.

I'd hate top bring this up but since it's been made public...
Notim, have you even read anything you've typed? It's very hard to follow, hence, my honest mistake when I saw "tech" and from the context, thought you had left out the a letter, like a few other times before.

You should really spell that one out, or put a period to show you've shortened it. Personally I enjoy raw emotion over technique filled music, but that's just an opinion, and for music, it is an art form. It is very hard to deny other opinions.

But technique isn't theory, you can know theory but not know how to preform it.

Anyway, not to get side tracked. Please Notim, be respectful, and don't go busting peoples balls for no reason. If you want to do that, you previous messages will be my proof.
goodtunes  
19 Mar 2008 05:18 | Quote
Joined: 09 Feb 2008
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Lmao. Like Rodney King said" cant we all just get along..."

since many things on here are opinions lets not forget to not to mad at each other when opinions dont line up with each other.

Afro_Raven  
19 Mar 2008 05:50 | Quote
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Moderator
@Notim: Following on from what kicknguitar said, dude I don't know if you were angry when you made that post but it really sounds that way from what you've written. This forum is slightly different to others you might find on the net, here people don't get angry with each other, if someone says something that another disagrees with they also state their opinion and leave it at that, because we all know how subjective music is to different people.
So, sorry if I'm sounding like an old man about this, but I have been using this site for the past 3 years (how sad?) and I have found that people just don't argue about stuff like that.

Regards,
Afro
deefa  
19 Mar 2008 09:05 | Quote
Joined: 22 Dec 2007
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I've nothing against tech in itself, it's just that some people make such a meal of letting everyone know how conversant they are with it to the extent that it takes on a life of it's own rather than just being a means to an end!

MERELY AN OBSERVATION!!!
league  
19 Mar 2008 11:11 | Quote
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AfroRaven should be a moderator(no ass kissing intended)lol. All that theory is pretty hard to grasp from reading it. It could be easily explained on the fretboard and by playing. I agree with notim in that you should spend more time practicing than bustin your brains with theory. Some theory is necessary though, or else any toddler could play the guitar.
Guitarslinger124  
19 Mar 2008 11:20 | Quote
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The way i see it, i not only want to become the best guitar player i can possibly be, but i also want to be a half decent musician. music theory is a language, not a dialect. it is consistent throughout all forms of music (being very general of course, not getting subjective and calling it "western music") and it allows musicians who play different instruments to speak to one another regardless of whether they speak english, french or whatever else. as far as guitar is concerned...knowing your theory is not a necessity but it sure as hell helps...
league  
19 Mar 2008 11:26 | Quote
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Well said. A different view.
Doz  
19 Mar 2008 12:21 | Quote
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AfroRaven hit the nail on the head. We're not here to argue, we're here to help. I also agree with Kick, it's hard to understand sometimes, especially over the internet. I'm sorry if I misunderstood what you said - but why did you have to get angry over it? Why not explain to me instead? Why is it not worth explaining, just because I thought you meant something else?

I've found myself disagreeing with a lot of things people say on this site, but I've never gotten angry over it. Also, I'd like to add - we are in a thread where someone is asking a question (or many questions)... which means they obviously want to know the answer and are interested in it... so saying "why do it that way, just play from your soul" is the wrong answer.
EMB5490  
19 Mar 2008 13:52 | Quote
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this is y this forum is so gr8. no 1 really gets p.oed at som 1 or tell them tht they suk, and if they do, every one tries to like show that they kinda like care and stuff, and eventually som 1 says ther sorry. (WOW tht was corney yet true)
Doz  
19 Mar 2008 14:12 | Quote
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Lol, I feel like I'm in a sitcom aimed at 10 years old because of that post EMB. :D
EMB5490  
19 Mar 2008 15:51 | Quote
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lol
J.M.P.A.  
19 Mar 2008 20:49 | Quote
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Thanks again for the answers and for yours opinions. But I have another question. There are two guitars but the two need to play the same chord or change the chord position or not. Thanks.
Notim  
20 Mar 2008 03:25 | Quote
Joined: 08 Dec 2007
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We'll kick you are really the one that was disrespectfull saying that I am closed minded and ignorant,and I wasn't mad, Kick gave his opion and I gave mine.
Doz  
20 Mar 2008 08:23 | Quote
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Then why did you say that something wasn't worth explaining? Of course something is worth explaining or else how am I supposed to know? Your post really seemed to be saying what I think you were saying.
Guitarslinger124  
20 Mar 2008 13:21 | Quote
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guys...i think this thread is best left alone. leave it be.
les_paul  
20 Mar 2008 13:55 | Quote
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I agree with GS. Let it go.
EMB5490  
20 Mar 2008 16:05 | Quote
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lol ye git 'long little doggy get 'long lol.


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