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Shouldnt Work But Does

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Rambutan  
19 Jan 2006 03:49 | Quote
Posts: 9
Ever had one of those moments when you're making something up e.g. a solo and technically it shouldn't work, yet it somehow does?

As I am completely self taught I suppose this is inevitable for me.

How about you?
smelly_feet101  
21 Feb 2006 04:10 | Quote
Posts: 6
i am self taught also, and people often say to me that the way i play isnt right or isnt the correct way, but hey...it works for me and it sounds alright as well, and yeah i have written a song before with a solo that wasnt in any sort of key but still managed to sound awesome:D
sophieg22  
6 Mar 2006 12:46 | Quote
Posts: 24
i am not self taught i take an 8 week course every year and my dad taught me all ther chords i know. But i write songs and compose the music for my guitar. And that has happened to me.
08machine  
7 Mar 2006 21:44 | Quote
Posts: 7
There are no rules in music. Theory rules are not real rules, they are just ideas which have been accepted. Their more of a guideline of what has always worked. Except in here you guys talk more about the foundations of music which i automatically accept as true and not about the tonal harmony aspect of music.
Hetfield_and_Hammet  
6 Apr 2006 07:24 | Quote
Posts: 7
Music is flexible. It's happened to be as well. I played a solo the other day (in the blues scale)and went into an unknown scale and it sounded pretty good. Some sounds just sound good together even though the books say that it shouldn't.
Gurutrevor  
29 Jun 2006 16:21 | Quote
Posts: 1
As my dad always told me, if it sounds right, it is right. =)
tAUG  
23 Aug 2007 09:37 | Quote
Sweden
Posts: 137
@Rambutan
If you have'nt heard that "If you mix some bad notes with some good notes it sound good" it probably will open up your mind a bit :) Cause it's pretty common for me when soloing that I mix up some notes that does'nt belong to the particul scale I'm playing. Yet it sound great. Maybe that's what you ment.

Have it
bob_sanchez  
25 Aug 2007 16:55 | Quote
United States
Posts: 9
I'm studying music theory now, and I can tell you those are in no way binding, whatsoever. Some guy, I forgot his name, got so pissed at western music theory that he spent 40+ years designing his own system. It had 43 tone scales as opposed to 12. He had to build his own instruments to play it. It worked, though. So as Gurutrevor said, if it sounds right, it is. Run with it :)
league  
26 Aug 2007 02:54 | Quote
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That happens to me all the time.I am mostly self taught.I heard somewhere, that centuries ago, classical composers only used the major and minor scale in their music.
blackholesun  
27 Aug 2007 09:43 | Quote
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
United Kingdom
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...and before that, they used modes exclusively. The modal system started off in ancient Greece, whereas the major and minor scales were introduced in 17th century. That's what i read in a book anyway - I'm a little bit confused because the major and natural minor scales are both modes (the Ionian and Aeolian modes).
Guitarslinger124  
27 Aug 2007 10:28 | Quote
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If you think about it, no matter what key you are in, you can pretty much play any note on the fret board. Example: A natural minor is: A, B, C, D, E, F and G...Now mix in A Hungarian harmonic minor (why not? they're in the same key) and you add D# and G# to the mix. Now add in, well i dunno, the jewish ahab raba scale in A minor: that gives you: A# and C#. Now you've got: A, A#, B, C, C#, D, D#, E, F, G and G#...looks like you're only missing F#...well guess what? there's an altered blues scale in Aminor that uses F# (bebop scale or something like that)...so there you have it...when playing in the key of A minor you are free to use any note on the fret board...there are no wrong notes...there are only notes that sound better than others in any given situation!!!
bodom  
27 Aug 2007 17:07 | Quote
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@ Guitarslinger124 there is no such scale as a Hungarian harmonic minor. There is a Hungarian minor and a harmonic minor. Also you CAN NOT play anynote and still be in the Key of "A" minor. You can only play the notes A,B,C,D,E,F and G. Any other note and you are in a different Key. Im not trying to be an @ss but are you sure you understand the Keys?
Guitarslinger124  
28 Aug 2007 00:40 | Quote
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yea im sure i understand the keys..hehe and no, i dont think you're being an ass...i tend to look at things different than most guitar players...the way i see it- if you're playing in the key of A minor, and you go to solo, i dont care what mode you're playing in or what scale you are using- you're still in A minor...technically thats wrong, i know...but it makes life a lot easier, and its more simple than getting hung up on all the theory stuff and always playing by the "rule" of music...
Guitarslinger124  
28 Aug 2007 00:41 | Quote
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oh and yes there is a hungarian harmonic minor...just because it isnt on this site (i dont know if it is or isnt) doesnt mean it isnt real...
Guitarslinger124  
28 Aug 2007 01:01 | Quote
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oh yea, im not trying to sound like i know it all...because i dont...and im not the greatest guitar player...that being said...if you realized what you just said..."@ Guitarslinger124 there is no such scale as a Hungarian harmonic minor. There is a Hungarian minor and a harmonic minor." i think its easy to see that if you were to combine the hungarian minor with the harmonic minor, you would get a hungarin harmonic minor...
and no i didnt come up with that on my own...
bodom  
28 Aug 2007 16:01 | Quote
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I never heard of a Hungarian harmonic minor scale. I think the real name of the scale your thinking of is Algerian. Harmonic minor and Hungarian minor together, Really its just adding a #4 to the Harmonic minor scale.
I really dont agree with your way of looking at music but to each his own.
Music is a lanquage there has to be rules/guidelines in order for people to communicate with one another. If your band members, or anyone really, asked you to play in the Key of A minor and you break out the D# aeolian scale... then its going to sound like crap because the notes dont match up. So I dont think you should be telling people that you can play any notes and still be in a certian Key because you cant... there are only certian notes that can be played.
Doz  
28 Aug 2007 20:42 | Quote
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"i think its easy to see that if you were to combine the hungarian minor with the harmonic minor, you would get a hungarin harmonic minor..."

Lol... that doesn't really work out... because from what you believe you can mix anything (since you can play any note)... and mixing a major and a minor scale won't make major minor. :D

Anyway... I agree with bodom, preaching about chromatics in a place where all sorts of level guitarists are going to see is not a good idea.
Guitarslinger124  
28 Aug 2007 22:45 | Quote
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@Bodom-you are right, there does have to be rules and guidlines..in order to communicate...but i believe when you are playin your own music, those "rules" that help you communicate are pretty much irrelevant...really what i was getting at, was that are no wrong notes you can play...if playin in a song that in the key of A minor, it may just sound pretty cool to throw in an F# somewhere..hehe...but yes, again, you are right...my way of approching music is very unorthodox and technically incorrect...but "to each his own"...

@doz- haha...i didnt mean to preach! hehe...i wasnt posting a leeson or anything, i was just stating my opinion on the matter...and you're right, combining a major scale and a minor scale wont make a major-minor. i was just presenting a new way to look at music that apparantly you guys havent tried yet...alls i was sayin was, dont get too caught up in all the rules...and just as a side note...since we're being all technical and stuff...there are some scales, that if you combine with others- oyu wont be breaking any "rules" while, if you try to combine others (major and minor [hence why i never mentioned doing that]) it wont sound so hot...
Guitarslinger124  
28 Aug 2007 23:35 | Quote
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@doz- one more thing: here is my disclaimer: DISCLAIMER!!:I AM IN NO WAY TRYING TO BRAIN WASH YOU FELLOW GUITAR PLAYERS INTO THINKING THAT YOU SHOULD REBEL AGAINST THE ACCEPTED RULES OF MUSIC. I AM IN NO WAY ATTEMPTING TO PREACH. IT IS NOT MY INTENTION TO CONFUSE ENTRY LEVEL GUITAR PLAYERS. I AM ONLY SHARING MY VIEW ON MUSIC ONLY TO MAKE YOU AWARE OF A FELLOW GUITAR PLAYERS' OPINION AND VIEWS/TAKES ON MUSIC.

hehe...does that make you feel better...
Doz  
29 Aug 2007 05:11 | Quote
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Lol - you seem to assume that because we'd rather stay in key and play what is technically right that we're not as open. You're wrong... I've always let myself use 'wrong' notes whilst improvising *but few and far apart*. I agree it sounds alright sometimes... but only in the right place.

About the major minor thing - I was just saying how it isn't necesserily obvious that two scales make one scale with a similar name.
Guitarslinger124  
29 Aug 2007 10:58 | Quote
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and there you have it!! ok, so you just agreed with me...and i believe it is you who are makin assumtions...i never said how often and how many "wrong notes"-i simply presented an idea-which i know now that you agree with-"I've always let myself use 'wrong' notes whilst improvising". i was not telling people that they HAVE to play like this...i wasnt sayin that if they dont they are playing wrong...and since you brought the major minor thing back up...you need to foolow the convo i had with bodom a bit more carefully...we had a predetermined scale (hungarian harmonic minor) so it was easy for me to say that if you combine the hungarian minor and the harmonic minor you get the hungarian harmonic minor...there never was any "major minor scale" in the discussion...any im done with this thread, ill try not to make posts that so obscene to you any more...aye, peace and rock on...
Afro_Raven  
5 Sep 2007 06:43 | Quote
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To an extent, what guitarslinger is saying is kinda true, but you can only do the whole 'play any note and you're still in key' thing through modulating. Say you're in A minor, you use A B C D E F G. You could then change to using a hungarian harmonic minor (if there is such a scale) providing the chords underneath it also change to fit the scale.

For example, with an A natural minor scale you use chords Am Bdim C Dm Em F G. You can then halfway through choose to use A Lydian Diminished (although it would sound a bit weird) providing you then change to using chords Am B Cdim D#dim E F#dim G#. You will no longer be in the key of Am, but the root chord will still be an Am chord.

@GUITARSLINGER124: what you're saying is not obscene! In fact, for me it's quite interesting to hear from different players how they view the fretboard when soloing. It gives me some ideas of how I can make my methods easier to use. But I would agree with Doz in as much as we have to be careful in how we write posts here, cuz some people who are just starting to learn theory might take what we are saying to be correct. Which is not good if what we're saying isn't absolutely true!

Take it easy dude,
Afro
Doz  
5 Sep 2007 07:01 | Quote
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My arguement was mainly against writing things like that where a lot of beginners float around.

Plus... I'm not agreeing with you completely when I say I use odd notes here and there. You were saying you can use any note and not have to stick to scale/certain key at all (or so it seems). I do stick to scales, but just add in to spice up little bits every now and again. Or else it just sounds weird and wrong. I was agreeing with the fact that of course you don't *have* to do anything... but you're not going to get anything good out of it most of the time.

Also, I don't understand where my assumptions came in. It is pretty much true that if someone reads something from a more experienced player they are very likely to believe it fully. You *clearly stated* that if we didn't accept that we weren't as open to ideas yet.

When I joked about the major minor thing, I was only pointing out the flaw in your 'it's obvious that this and this makes this' thing, because honestly, it isn't. Things like that are done and given different names, you know.

To Afro_Raven: if gutarslinger had said it like you did, but in a different thread then I probably would have been here discussing that, rather than argueing against posting it.


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