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Hmmmm...

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btimm  
4 Sep 2011 19:06 | Quote
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DarkRiff says:
I've heard people say "then what's the incentive" before. Don't you think that if a doctor's salary was lowered, the doctors that were just in it for the money would leave, and what you would be left with would be The Doctors That Actually Care. It would teach people not be so greedy and to choose a career that they actually love and not just for the money.


Yes, you'd see significantly fewer doctors with the same population, making health care absolutely atrocious. And come on, it's notlike doctors that are in it for the money don't take their job seriously - you still have to maintain a certain level of professionalism and show an abilityto actually do your job.
btimm  
4 Sep 2011 19:09 | Quote
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DarkRiff says:
If you feel your paying the workers then, hey so be it.
I feel that I'm paying the players more-less though.

Hockey players don't bug me as much as Basketball, Football, and Baseball players do though.


Why? Because they can capitalize on a rare skill that gives their employers billions of dollars? If I had a skill that would allow my employer to make billions, and I knew that my services are very very rare, I'd liketo be compensated as well. I do not though, and I am perfectly fine with my life that doesn't involve a pay check even close to that of an athlete. In fact, I can't even afford to go buy a $200 pedal I want. Such is life for most people. I am just simply not jealous of those that have a beter financial situation than myself.
btimm  
4 Sep 2011 19:10 | Quote
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RA says:
it not just the dems or the reps there both equally to blame. There really the same thing in the end (where it matters).


Hitting the nail on the head here imo.
btimm  
4 Sep 2011 19:12 | Quote
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case211 says:
I would hope that Obama or whoever is next will at least make the people who make millions of dollars per year pay more in taxes percentage wise than say my dad, who makes $30k a year. I mean, they've already got millions of dollars, what's the big deal of not being able to buy yet another Lamborghini or Ferrari. It just seems greedy to sit back and feel like your being wronged because you have to pay more taxes than the postman who delivers your mail even though you might have made $3 million last year, while he makes probably around $30k per year. Just my view on that.


Conversely, why should a person who makes more money be punished for being taxed at a higher rate?

Again, someone come back here and actually prove that the poor are so heavily burdoned with taxes relative to the people with money. I have yet to see one argument from a reputable source that shows this. I simply don't buy it.
gshredder2112  
4 Sep 2011 19:46 | Quote
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@btimm Nobody is being punished. America citizens are suffering and starving. they get g/a because they dont have a rare skill,an oppotunity,or where given any way to be successful.you say you
know how hard it is to have little money,yet you cant sympathize
with lower class american citizens?

Imagine If you didnt have money to buy your kids food,and had to get on g/aid,would you still be saying the poor give nothing? no,you would be fighting and scratching to hold on too whatever money you recieve. and with no money,you had a higher tax that might deny you food or shelter or gas too get too work. Its hard enough as it is poor folk dont live glamourous lives,they survive,thats it.like you not getting that pedal,you cant afford it,imagine if your taxes where raised,then what?

Im sick of this''I got mine,forget everyone else''attitude,that is the problem with america. If the ones who could afford it gave to the government,this wuld be a better country.
btimm  
4 Sep 2011 20:46 | Quote
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gshredder2112 says:
@btimm Nobody is being punished. America citizens are suffering and starving. they get g/a because they dont have a rare skill,an oppotunity,or where given any way to be successful.you say you
know how hard it is to have little money,yet you cant sympathize
with lower class american citizens?

Imagine If you didnt have money to buy your kids food,and had to get on g/aid,would you still be saying the poor give nothing? no,you would be fighting and scratching to hold on too whatever money you recieve. and with no money,you had a higher tax that might deny you food or shelter or gas too get too work. Its hard enough as it is poor folk dont live glamourous lives,they survive,thats it.like you not getting that pedal,you cant afford it,imagine if your taxes where raised,then what?

Im sick of this''I got mine,forget everyone else''attitude,that is the problem with america. If the ones who could afford it gave to the government,this wuld be a better country.


Nah, I am sick of the attitude of people crying they have nothing. Then do something about it. THe poor DO give nothing. They get 100% of their taxes back and ALSO get assistance. They get something from the government and then complain about it. It is so frustrating when I worked my as off to get where I am today to see people crying who put forth no effort. I see it all the time.

As for no opportunity, check out this story:
http://www.danijohnson.com/about/about-dani-johnson/

Or maybe this story:
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Extra/FromHomelessDrugUserToMillionaire.aspx

Or others just like it. You can get what you want if you work hard. I am personally content with my life the way it is. I would rather spend my time with my family than focus on how to get completely debt free and have significantly more money. That's my choice. I certainly don't fault other people who would prefer to work their tails off and make some money. They didn't take the "woe ie me, I have no money, the rich should help me" route with their attitudes - that gets you nowhere. So don't sit ther and say there isn't opportunity. The opportunities are definitely there if you are willing to find them.

The rich give to the poor? No thanks. They already give plenty enough.

Also, what makes anyone think that if the rich were taked at a higher rate that the government would even give it out to the poor anyways? My guess is they would certainly find a way to blow it, as they currently do.
btimm  
4 Sep 2011 20:51 | Quote
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Here is something for you all that wanna help the poor so badly:

http://www.cnsnews.com/node/68094

Believe it or not, as I already stated, but no one bothered to find any evidence to the contrary, the poor actually have a negative income tax. Yes, that is true, they don't pay **** and get money in return. The majority of taxes actually comes from middle class (me). But the poor always complain and you don't see me complaining. I wonder why that is. Because most of middle class America has worked their tails off for what they have and they are appreciative of what they have. Meanwhile, the poor complain about their status, despite doing nothing to solve it for the most part (ever been to the inner cities?), crying about the rich and the athletes and the CEOs.
tinyskateboard  
4 Sep 2011 20:58 | Quote
Joined: 28 Apr 2010
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gshredder2112 says:
Im sick of this''I got mine,forget everyone else''attitude,that is the problem with america. If the ones who could afford it gave to the government,this wuld be a better country.


To pay for the wars?
DarkRiff  
4 Sep 2011 21:47 | Quote
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@Btimm

Yea, you keep mentioning the people who don't want to work, but how about the millions that try to get work and can't. It's not like they can take a job a McDonalds because their either overqualified or minimum wage can't support a family or even one person as a matter of fact. And defending the middle class is what I'm talking about more-less. Why should all the taxes be placed on them. If we taxed the rich it would take a huge weight off of the middle class and lower class. And what you don't get is, Many Middle Class citizens are being pushed into the lower class simply because of corporate greed. Like I keep saying, they export jobs to make money, Then sell that product to Americans. So we lose money by not having jobs and we loose more money by paying CEOs and foreign workers. There are always going to be people who take advantage of the system, but why should the people who really need the system have to suffer because of it. I don't get why people defend the rich. It's not like they give a crap about you. As long as they get your money, who cares? I have never once talked about hurting the middle class, only the upper class. My family is being pushed into the middle class because of rich business men exporting jobs to foreign countries. By taxing the rich more We will SAVE the middle class.

@tsb

Yea, They probably would put it towards wars, which is a horrible thing. That's why we need a more Democratic system. So The people will decide, not these corrupt politicians. And I know that a Pure Democracy can't exist In large Country such as the USA, but when it comes to certain large issues, The American people should have a say too.

And let me add, I'm not trying to get on anyones bad side. I'm just expressing my opinion. The majority of my Dad's family are staunch conservatives (Except for one Uncle who kinda of showed me some of the beliefs I hold today). But I still respect them as I do you guys.
gshredder2112  
4 Sep 2011 22:20 | Quote
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@tsb I was thinking tonhelp.the poor,but your right

@btimm Ok,You make it seem like its a bad thing
to help the less fortunate.

Lemme give you an example

You are the government for your children. You
provide rules,law,protection,and a free country.
In exchange you ask for taxes. Now if kid your was 18
had no job,no home,and no money for for food or taxes,would
you cut off his food budget,his shelter,and say go.fend for yourself
i worked for my stuff,now go get yours and dont expect to live unless
you do...And oh yeah when you finnaly start paying me my taxes
there going to go up,while the guys who are already finnacially secure(millionaires) Get tax breaks.
btimm  
4 Sep 2011 22:41 | Quote
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gs2112, did you even read any of the links that I posted at all?
case211  
5 Sep 2011 01:40 | Quote
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@Btimm

The Bush Tax Breaks?...

Not really punishment-but trickle down economy isn't really working. Think about it dude, you see a professional athlete making millions of dollars, getting breaks on taxes because he makes so much. While the people who don't, simply don't get any sort of tax break. It really isn't a great way for an economy to run. The people who have to scrape by end up paying more percentage wise than the people who have the financial means to be able to pay more percentage wise.

Reputable source or not, just think about this from a neutral perspective.
For someone who makes millions, they should have to pay a little more percentage on taxes than people who make the $30k mark. Tax breaks to me seem bass-ackwards and make no sense right now. I mean if you want to use them, at least help the people out who can't really pay very much outside the expense of living, versus allowing the top x% to have breaks to keep more of their money. Did they earn it? Yeah, probably. Doesn't mean they work any harder or more than someone else making 10% of their income.
My view on the athletes being paid:
From their view, I would want to be paid millions of dollars to put my body through the ringer every week for 4-5 months out of the year(and training). Injuries could be really nasty, and it would be nice to have some sort of compensation to take the risk. I'm not going to suit up and go get into a car wreck 10 times in a game for $100 if it's my career, I want more insurance for later on. I get that, it makes sense to me. What I don't get, is why the people that make so much money, whine about having to pay taxes, and end up getting tax breaks to keep more money--while the middle class and poor can't even hope for such treatment, even though we whine just as much about it as the next guy!
Frustrating stuff man...
RA  
5 Sep 2011 02:00 | Quote
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@darkriff quotes are useless. you an quotes to justify anything. Look at the bible, look at Nietzsche.

I can quote him with "God is dead," hell I can quote the whole wander speech to the town about seeking God.

I can then say that Nietzsche was an atheist. As many way too many do. But if you read Nietzsche it has nothing to do with a god existing and then dieing in any way, and to add insult to injury there is a good ten aphorisms as to why atheism is dumb (he did think in a way it could bring about a quicker spout of nihilism thus making the overman realization quicker).

*not bring up Nietzsche just the idea that "quotes" have any concrete true meaning to the author, thus the argument is invalided*


as for Smith I haven't read him (plan to but my interest in Philosophy is largely in metaphysics and Epistemology so always on the back burner) most people that quote him haven't either as "Wealth of Nations" is a major task it is a huge tome like book. However, I do know a bit about him form reference in people I trust (philosophers I have read or listen to that I know actually read stuff like that).

first and foremost he was a Moral Philosopher (no such thing as economics yet), so to say he wasn't concerned with greed and gluttony is a lie. add to that the whole point of the book is about that he was a liberal who was fighting feudalism (want to talk about gluttony). We was trying to set up a free society where equality would prevail. He hated corporations (granted his corps and are corps are different; back to the chartered stuff again), and was very concerned with the poor. Most of the issues you have he had too. He was for progressive taxes.

also if what your worried about is laissez-faire free market capitalism the notion you have of that if you have any would be that of the ultra-capitalist Ayn Rand, not so much Adam smith. To understand her you have to understand objectivism. her views on free market lives and dies on it.

but ultimately Adam Smith shouldn't concern you yet. you don't learn calculus if you don't know algebra. you need to read Locke before he will make any sense.

also Capitalism will fail because of greed isn't an argument. It is useless as you could slap any logical function to greed and thus it wouldn't work. Anything, feudalism, socialism, democracy, monarchy, yada yada yada.

the only time that works is if you saying that people are naturally wicked and in the state of nature there would be war against all. That would be Hobbes and Hobbes can only lead to what in modern times would end up being Fascism and I can't support that.

ultimately, you got ideas but like most people I meet their all over the place and very confused. You can't deal with the confusion yourself it be foolish to even try. The only way to do this is to educate yourself. I'm not saying you have to go nuts and read a ridiculous amount and spent 60-70 dollars on the complete works of Spinoza. You don't even have to read most philosophers, there are only a few certain books/people every one should know about and that truly matter outside of academia. Being an Americans it is ridiculous everybody doesn't know John Locke (he is the guy who developed our ideas of a free society, Jefferson was just ripping him off most of the time), but than again I don't want to know how many people have even bothered to read the constitution (I'm thinking low). There are Some people everybody should read in full (at lest the articles that matter; tabla rasa no so much) but unless your into philosophy no one should read Leviathan in full, but people should still know about him.

I wanted to post some scans of brief excerpts of Hobbes and Locke but I can't here, however if anyone is interested and knows how to do it for free I would be happy to do it when I have the time (I'll make them PDFs). I don't think copyright law matters to much as They have been dead for a long time; that and I photo copied them from the library anyway. I have a scanner so it wont be too hard for me.


@case my issues have less to do with "the war on drugs" (which i don't agree with) and more with the fact us taxes payers give them millions to billions (free public money not loans) in R&D then they sell it back to us at ridiculous prices. Then when the recession happened the shipped thousand of R&D jobs to India. I'd hated being an organic chemist in Mass but I think (not sure) Cali's in worse shape. That and We pay a ridiculous amount in medical cost relative to other nations due to this. And our Politicians keep giving our life to them more and more.


@bitmm

the tax rate for the richest is around 15% at the best and a few of big super corps like GE are how did you put it in the negative.

even with a flat no loophole tax rate the rich would still pay more as 1% own almost majority of income. Thus the notion is useless and illogical.

The upper middle class is getting ***ed with 35% rate. But I still have an issue with people making 200-300k thinking their not rich (delusional), but regardless why should they pay more when millionaires pay less. I come for a family making 100k some a little more and were all very well off, I just don't understand why they don't (the whole not poor not rich position is weird to me)

the issues is the super rich don't get income (payroll) like everybody else thus the loopholes go unacknowledged.

Also the notion that if people just work hard and get an education is useless also. Not everybody can do it (people should work hard I have no sympathy for people who don't work, so I hope you get what I'm saying/point) and even if in some unrealistic world everybody did society would fall apart. There has to be ditch diggers, and grocery baggers. That doesn't mean they should be treated like ***.

and I'm with you on the fact that a lot of our welfare programs are morally corrupting. Coming form southern mass I know plenty of chics who don't get married and just have kids to get welfare and sit on their ass all day in Rhode island.

However working full time at walmart at min wage only gives you 14k (federal rate) thus your on welfare.


Low prices are great and all but deflation drops wage of the workers. Unless you sell more, but the employees are still @ min or just above so who is wining on this deal

The reality is big business is ***ing us. Walmart undercuts everybody out of business creating nothing but a type of serfdom (no right of labor = wage slave). or it is these franchises that are really just tenant farming. And it is our statist government that is in bed with these groups.


also the stories of crackheads making it big are useless. It is completely illogical. I hear them time and time again but it proves nothing. People work at lower class blue collar jobs get over it we all can't be in STEM. There needs to be factory workers there needs to be poop scoopers. The undeniable fact is, they are starving (usa starving not third world staring of course but that really doesn't add up to too much).

If we build the service nation too far or we all have an collage education in business trying to be the Bourgeoisie of the world. China and India will one day tell us to fleck off and take everything leaving us in the dust.

not to mention there is moral issue with thinking that people on the welfare should be taxed. While you can argue that welfare creates an immortality. provided that welfare exists, why would people on welfare be taxed? what would be the point it is again illogical.

also it seems you have no issue with corporate welfare and/or no taxes correct?. Again raising moral issues and illogical issues

I'll play the citation game if you want. I'm not going to hold your hand though.

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&source=hp&q=corporations+not+paying+taxes+2011&pbx=1&oq=corporations+not+&aq=1&aqi=g5&aql=1&gs_sm=c&gs_upl=24617l28282l0l31128l5l5l0l0l0l0l417l1223l0.1.3.0.1l5l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=74e371c96a48f4b&biw=1366&bih=624


http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=67562604-8280-4d56-8af4-a27f59d70de5

http://otda.ny.gov/programs/food-stamps/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._minimum_wages

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States

Warren Buffet is ok when he is not playing J.P. Morgan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu5B-2LoC4s

http://www.businessinsider.com/warren-buffett-taxes-2011-8
DanielM  
5 Sep 2011 04:21 | Quote
Joined: 11 Apr 2011
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In England guess the thing that the lower classes blame the most for them staying poor and not making a good living.

Apathy.

It's not a lack of opportunities it's not a worse education it's not taxes and a lack of jobs.

It's the fact they don't feel motivated to pursue a career and would rather do nothing while the handouts are there.

Ergo it's their own fault.

@Gshredder my parents would help me out now at this age but around 23+ etc it would be fend for myself. You have to learn to stand on your own two feet and I wouldn't want their money anyway
DarkRiff  
5 Sep 2011 10:28 | Quote
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@ RA

The quotes of Adam Smith favoring the rich ARE from "Wealth of Nations".

And yea, I know of Ayn Rand. She's a hypocrite. She was so against social security yet she applied for it in her old age. Her theories would RUIN countries, Create Aristocracy, and Destroy the Middle Class.
So yea, I'm kinda of worried of her ultra-capitalism and Objectivism because so many Libertarians have adopted her belief. And being Libertarian seems to be the all the rage amongst Young Adults now.
That's what scares me.

Also, I think you hit the nail on the head. The Super rich are the problem. Like I said I want to defend the Middle Class (Lower - Upper Middle Class) and the Lower Class.

@ Daniel

That may be the case in the U.K., But the main problem in America, IMO, is a lot parents don't care anymore. If parents gave a crap their kids would have a better education and more opportunities. But There are still not that many opportunities in America due to lack of jobs.
gshredder2112  
5 Sep 2011 10:34 | Quote
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@Dm Yes,but what if you homeless,and hadnt eaten
for a week? Would your pride be an Issue over death?

My point was The government has a responsibilty too
take care of its citizens in some way or another ,unless
the wanna see millions die.
DanielM  
5 Sep 2011 11:18 | Quote
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Tbh if I was homeless and hadn't eaten in weeks that would be my own fault here we have youth hostels and council houses for the unemployed with no income, and community soup kitchen like places where the homeless can get a free meal.

In other words people are homeless in England out of choice not necessity.
gshredder2112  
5 Sep 2011 12:07 | Quote
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Hmmm Well we dont really have that type of resource here
anymore,we use Govt.Aid to help,but it only goes so far.
btimm  
5 Sep 2011 13:55 | Quote
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I don't believe I ever said I approve of exporting jobs or having low wages at all. I am simply referring to taxation. There should be a drive to succeed and that should not be stifled, as that is how progress is made. I don't approve of exporting jobs and I don't approve of extremely low wages for all jobs; however, I do think that people should be paid according to their job worth. Almost anyone in the world can work at Walmart and do the jobs that the company needs. Conversely there are very few people in the world who possess the skills I have and I believe I should be paid accordingly.

On a lighter note, this whole debate reminded me of this scene from Good Will Hunting:



Which then reminds me of this clip that is hilarious:
case211  
5 Sep 2011 21:56 | Quote
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@RA

It hurts to think about it man haha our healthcare is horrid.

@Btimm

Love that movie!
DarkRiff  
5 Sep 2011 22:11 | Quote
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My Boy's wicked smart

@ Btimm

The crazy thing is a lot of people I know speak like that.
The majority Rhode Islanders have the exact same accent as those from Boston (Bostonians I think they are called)
I even occasionally say "wicked"

You see though, in that debate he was more-less talking about originality and forming one's own opinions. Which I think we all have our own original opinions here.
btimm  
5 Sep 2011 22:24 | Quote
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Yeah I get that DarkRiff, it just made me think of that scene and then the corresponding hilarious scene from Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back. lol I knew it wasn't an exact corrolation there, it just reminded me of it due to all of the quoting of various people and whatnot.
TANCLAWS  
10 Sep 2011 18:50 | Quote
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@gshredder2112 I like your disclaimer

The American Government has us brainwashed into picking sides,

If your a Republican, You blame the Democrats for everything

If your a Democrat , You blame the Republicans for everything

If your Obama, you blame Bush for everything

WE NEED TO SNAP OUT OF IT AND FOCUS ON THE REAL PROBLEMS,

Who gives a flying **** about abortion... What about the War going on, huh did we forget about that, because our government almost shutdown a while back because republicans and democrats couldn't suck it up and compromise.

well whatever, maybe i dont know enough about this kind of stuff.

A house divided... cannot stand. - somewhere in the bible...
gx1327  
10 Sep 2011 21:37 | Quote
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don't blame me, i vote 3rd party.
btimm  
21 Sep 2011 00:23 | Quote
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I thought this was a very well-written blog post from a good friend of mine and I think his unbias view is refreshing. An interesting idea for a solution to the debt problem.

http://www.andr3w321.com/how-to-tax-the-rich-without-taxing-the-hardworking-rich/
DanielM  
21 Sep 2011 03:28 | Quote
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Good blog, I agreed with the name of the link before even clicking it.

Millionaires in England have moved companies to be based off shore in countries they have a small base in whilst the majority of their work is done in the UK to avoid UK taxes. If you treat the rich job creators badly they'll just move the money into someone else's economy. Meanwhile the people like actors with masses of money can't legally move their money offshore. etc etc

I could write another paragraph or two on this but there's no point it's pretty self evident imo :P
DarkRiff  
21 Sep 2011 09:43 | Quote
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The guy makes some good points.

Matt Damon always has a good point.
I couldn't agree with him more about the upper class having to go to war. Like Black Sabbath said in War Pigs

"Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the war
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to the poor"

But I still refuse to believe Bill Gates deserves the billions he has while people across America are losing their homes.
IMO you wanna know who deserves billions of dollars?
The soldiers that died in the name of a dumb war that could never be one.
The soldiers that died filling out Bush's personal vendetta against Hussein.
Yea, People who sacrifice their lives deserves billions.
And because they can't get that money, since they are dead, Their families should get a nice portion IMO.
Inventors deserve millions sure, but billion/trillions NO.
btimm  
21 Sep 2011 11:18 | Quote
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I don't understand why an inventor shouldn't obtain what their idea is worth on an open market. If you have people that want to give you their money in exchange for your service or product, I see no reason why the profit should be capped - they earned it imo.
tinyskateboard  
21 Sep 2011 22:50 | Quote
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btimm: darkriff is just quoting a philosophy, not really saying anything substantive.

No dig at you darkriff, but nobody could really say Bill Gates deserves what you say he doesn't for doing what he did, and not be parroting some required college text.
Guitarslinger124  
22 Sep 2011 03:29 | Quote
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Moderator
Complaining doesn't get you anywhere. Especially about taxes.

I agree with Btimm to an extent. Poor people are given more than anyone else. They might not get the best, but they should be glad to get anything at all.

As far as taxes... The idea of a tax return is outrageous. People complain about the taxes they pay and get back every year. Give me break. You want the government to help the poor with taxes? Give up your tax return.

People are spoiled, here in Germany, there is a 19% sales tax and nearly a %50 income tax. The poor can qualify for more than 500EU ($700)a month from the government. You want to help the poor? Pay more taxes out of your own pocket. Open a food kitchen- that is people helping people.




Enough about the poor.

The financial issue with America goes far beyond what most people understand. It isn't about parties or about classes.

How many of you felt it when the government couldn't compromise on their spending in August?

I lost a months pay.




The only problem with rich people is they don't share their wealth. What is wrong with that? If I had 50 million in the bank, I wouldn't give a homeless person on the street a million bucks just because I can; in hindsight, maybe I would, but you get my point.

If you want rich people to pay up, raise taxes. Oh snap! Yea that means you gotta pay more too. People don't want to do that.

The government cant help every poor person and they shouldn't have to- and rich people shouldn't have to either. Great if they do, OK if they don't.

I know I am talking in circles, but I don't like hearing people complain about petty things.

Finances in the world suck because people borrow more than they can repay, spend the borrowed money and then the lenders ask for it back earlier than expected. So now, already broke people have to become more broke by borrowing more money that they don't have from people who can't even afford to lend because they don't have money either. That's is why we are in a Global Depression.

It isn't just America guys. It's everyone. Spain is about to go bankrupt, Greece is bankrupt: two of the biggest tourist countries are about to suck all the money out of the EU to repay their debts.

Blame the government and the rich all you want. What it comes down to is supply and demand. The government is in debt because people cant take care of themselves. Because people support going to war. Because people are afraid to stand up for what they believe in. Because people are too lazy to help themselves and would rather sit at home and complain.

Tired of being poor? Get off your butt and do something about it. Younger than 42 years old? Join the military, don't tell me you can't get a job. Older than 42? Take out a loan, go to school, get another job. That is life.


That is life

There is always something YOU can do.

Rock on!

DanielM  
22 Sep 2011 03:51 | Quote
Joined: 11 Apr 2011
United Kingdom
Lessons: 1
Karma: 12
@darkriff bill gates has given over $28 billion to charity, he's actually knocked himself down about 2 or 3 places on the rich list because of all the money he's given away.

Also I think I read most of his money when he die is going into charity and his children are only getting enough to live but they will have to get jobs if they want to sustain the lifestyle they are used to.

All in all he seems like a decent guy.
Guitarslinger124  
22 Sep 2011 05:50 | Quote
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
United States
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Karma: 38
Moderator
DanielM says:
All in all he seems like a decent guy.


Except that Microsoft is founded on Fraud and corporate bullying :)

(Just had to throw that in there)

Rock on!
DanielM  
22 Sep 2011 06:33 | Quote
Joined: 11 Apr 2011
United Kingdom
Lessons: 1
Karma: 12
And the same can be said about apple many a time over.

Only difference is I can't find anything to like about Steve Jobs :P
DarkRiff  
22 Sep 2011 15:22 | Quote
Joined: 18 Mar 2008
United States
Licks: 2
Karma: 12
@ Guitarslinger

You make it seem like opening a food kitchen is so easy. The Middle Class can't do it because we're being pushed into the lower class. You know, the ones that need the food, shelter, clothing, those greedy ****s huh? :/ The upper class sure isn't making any food kitchens, hell they just supply the people who need the food kitchen.

Also, no offense to you, but not everyone is cut out for the military. And about schooling, lets say A 50 year old goes back to school, ok, Still doesn't guarantee him a job. My uncle did that in his mid 50s and he still couldn't find work in the field he studied for. Plus, NOT EVERYONE CAN TAKE OUT A LOAN. Don't make it sound so damn easy. People get denied everyday for loans everyday. Don't always say "YOU do something about it", because many of US can't afford to do something about it. That's why this pressure is being put on the backs of the rich.

And yea, some people are in trouble now because the dropped out or something like that. A mistake They made in the past. What happened to a second chance? I'm sure a lot of people that are in financial trouble now wish they could do something to reverse it. But they can't. So yea, let's tell the 30 year old to join the military and leave his family, not get to watch his child grow up because he made a mistake in the past. Let's tell another 30 year old to work at McDonalds on a pay that won't even support himself let alone his family. Why are so many people on welfare? Because there's no difference between welfare and minimum wage. The answer is not to lower welfare, it's to RAISE minimum wage and try to keep the cost of living level. And the people who actually need welfare are being denied and these drug dealers and lazy people are taking money from welfare every week. It's all just bullcrap.
Guitarslinger124  
22 Sep 2011 15:40 | Quote
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
United States
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Karma: 38
Moderator
DarkRiff says:
You make it seem like opening a food kitchen is so easy. The Middle Class can't do it because we're being pushed into the lower class. You know, the ones that need the food, shelter, clothing, those greedy ****s huh? :/ The upper class sure isn't making any food kitchens, hell they just supply the people who need the food kitchen.


The food kitchen thing was a metophor.

There has to be a balance in the world. There is also a finite amount of money. Take, those two things into account and, unless you're a communist (which I'm not saying in any way that you are), someone is gonna be rich as someone is gonna be poor.

Of course it is more complex than that, however, that is the gist. Communism is great on paper, but it doesn't work in real life and therefore there will always be very poor people and very rich people. Someone has to hold the big cheese as it were.

There are so many things that go beyond political banter that are way out of our control.
macandkanga  
22 Sep 2011 17:09 | Quote
Joined: 03 Oct 2008
United States
Karma: 21
There is'nt a finite amount of money. It's no longer backed up by gold or anything else. They just print more when they need more. But the problem is about dept and credit. Countries are now in a position where their credit is'nt good and they have debt and need to borrow. The problem now is that banks have debt and bad credit. Why? Two things. 1. Because the top 1% has all the money, no debt and all the credit. 2. We keep listening to all this media crap about the economy and we don't buy as consumers.

But here's the rub: Everytime the US treasury pumps in more money to the system, it just ends up in the hands of the incredibly rich. A very small portion of these people will give it back in donations of sorts but just to the needy. The biggest suppliers of cash, banks, keep getting bailed out but don't lend money.

It's like Monopoly. If I own 90% of everything on the board, other players lose all their money and their property goes to the bank. We can agree to give all players a sum of money but it wont change anything. I'll still end up with all that money too!

DON'T BAIL OUT BANKS, CORPORATIONS, GOVERNMENTS, PEOPLE OR ANYTHING ELSE! DON'T TAX THE RICH EITHER. IT WON'T SOLVE A THING! IF ANYTHING, CREATE A FLAT TAX FOR EVERYBODY. THE AMOUNT OF MONEY IS NOT THE PROBLEM. IT'S HOW IT'S PURPOSED.
DarkRiff  
22 Sep 2011 18:22 | Quote
Joined: 18 Mar 2008
United States
Licks: 2
Karma: 12
Guitarslinger124 says:
There are so many things that go beyond political banter that are way out of our control.


If your hinting at the conspiracy that there is a more powerful order out there then yea, I agree.

@ macandkanga

I couldn't agree more.

They reason why I push the higher taxation of the rich is because. No one is doing anything else at the moment. I believe the taxation of the rich is 1. best for our current situation and 2. a Temporary solution until a better one is devised.
tinyskateboard  
22 Sep 2011 21:05 | Quote
Joined: 28 Apr 2010
United States
Karma: 11
Higher tax = more pork.
How about tax breaks for the rich if they invest in jobs at the rate of 6 jobs created per million they are worth, with a $10 minimum wage.
gshredder2112  
23 Sep 2011 00:53 | Quote
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
United States
Licks: 3
Karma: 22
ok,Id Like too add That,If I had Beaucoup bucks,I don't
think I could live with myself If I i had all that money,
And i knew people were suffering,and didnt help them,regardless
of there past choices,there complaining attitudes,age
W/e. There still human beings,and deserve too be treated
as such.

Furthermore, Id like to also add that the government is messed beyond repair.

And finnaly,at all the people who are saying that the poor people need to take initiative,and get a job,and make money,and change there lives are hypocrites. They sit here and preach there idealistic views of america,how things should be,how everything is all wrong with the welfare and such,yet they do.nothing too try and change it,they just sit at home and complain,just like they claim the poor people do..
JustJeff  
23 Sep 2011 06:32 | Quote
Joined: way back
United States
Lessons: 2
Karma: 21
This has bothered me for a long time, and I know that it's part of an older topic, but it needs to be said.


Doctors, Pharmacists, Engineers, etc; People who make up most of the upper-middle class are there for a reason. Their fields are specialty fields that need a lot of education, a lot of passion, and a lot of hard work. This needs to be represented by their income.

THE SAME THING GOES FOR PROFESSIONAL ATHLETES. it's not like they just woke up the next day and were amazing at basketball/football and were able to perform on a weekly basis to this standard against the best in the world. If you're good when there is competition around, you'll be rewarded.

Success comes from the hard work you put into it, and to say that athletes don't work to be good is completely ignorant.



Back on topic:

Currency is what you make it. Goods are worth something. Paper money is just a standard we use to make an even trade. We could always go back to trading goods for goods instead of money for goods.
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