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Need "formulas"

Music Theory
25 Aug 2011 18:06 | Quote
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
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Min 9th chord
Min 11th
Min 13
If you could,please include The full formulas
and the formulas with omitted notes.

Thanks again.

25 Aug 2011 18:17 | Quote
Joined: 24 Sep 2008
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Karma: 16
min = b3 b7
maj = 3 7
dom = 3 b7

13th chords tend to leave out the 11. one because of harmonic clashing, two because 7 voiced chords can be muddy in a lot of contexts (and we guitarist only have 6 voices to use)

just to clarify for those who may read (you should know this) all chords have roots and fifths (unless specifically noted), and no "add" mean include lower freq, "add" means skip in a way (you just add the one note to the chord)
25 Aug 2011 18:27 | Quote
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
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So minor13th would be


and maj13

And thank you very much much.

The seven note chord on a six stringed instrument
is a difficult thing to get around. But i plan too use these
in arpeggio form,do you think it would still be wise
to omit the 11th in a 13thchord? or is it just a matter
of the sound i need?
25 Aug 2011 20:08 | Quote
Joined: 24 Sep 2008
United States
Karma: 16
well it's really just you don't what a lot of notes in your comping it is better to suggest then to be very rigid (that and overall net harmony of the other players). But ultimately it is what your trying to do/what the song is doing/what others are doing. arpeggios are the in between so your need to think chords and scales. For example, Ionian you better believe you need that 11/4, while Dorian not so much. at the same time while we do perceive the 11 and the 4 to be very related there not really as the 11 is part of the mediant cycle while the 4 is a suspension. At the same time in the 11/4 thing the 3 is dissonant with the 4 and if voiced in a certain way the brain may hear a dissonant 4 rather than a cycle. however, as dom chords are like Ionian, the 11/4 lacks importance due to the stress on the tri-tone (3 & b7 are really a tri-tone). however, make that #11 and we got a whole new ballgame and a new scale set to start thing about.

so my point think scales and chords (how their related), where the song is going/what it trying to say/format,style/ what other stuff is going on in terms of other players/ and the sound your trying to go after.
25 Aug 2011 22:38 | Quote
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
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I understand. So maybe the bass plays the Root,the KEys 3-5-(b)7
and guitar 9-11-13 As a harmony sort of thing,thats just an example,but you see what im getting at.
2 Sep 2011 09:52 | Quote
Joined: 24 Sep 2008
United States
Karma: 16
no that wouldn't work too well as look at what a 9-11-13 is; lets say In C, D,F,A or D minor. C/Dmin is a F major6 which is stable and might well be what you hear instead of the more complicated chord. What you should be looking into is shell voicings.

Shell voicings brings the main/larger point in that what you should be studying is what makes this (scale, chord whatever) what it is. how does it function. What are the important notes, what makes a phrygian line a phrygian line. For instances, what I said about the dominant chord that the 4th is less important then when it come to the tri-tone, well that is only if it is functioning. If you where keyed in mixolidyian the 4th has become very important.

and the reason why I'm talking about chords even though you want arpeggios is as I have said before chords and scales are really the same thing and arpeggios are the prove of that. To be good at arpeggios you need to understand both chords and scales at the top of your game other wise your going to just have very static and repetitive line or line that are all over the place trying to fit in all the notes.

so the point to understand is, what is making this (whatever musically happening) this. what notes are can you cut, what happens when you add this, ect.
10 Sep 2011 12:58 | Quote
Joined: 05 Sep 2011
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Here is all I know...

m9 - 1 b3 5 b7 9
m11 - 1 b3 5 b7 9 11
m13 - 1 b3 5 b7 9 11 13

M9 - 1 3 5 7 9
M11 - 1 3 5 7 9 11
m13 - 1 3 5 7 9 11 13

9 - 1 3 5 b7 9
11 - 1 3 5 b7 9 11
13 - 1 3 5 b7 9 11 13

You could get the bass player to play the "1" or the "root" so you dont have to,

You could leave out the 11 on the 13 chord because it sounds better without it.

and that 13 is the same as 2 so you don't have to go up another octave because they're the same note.

or you could use 2 instead of 3, it gives it a nice suspended sound.
10 Sep 2011 13:07 | Quote
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
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whao,thanks man,I dig your pov on note
10 Sep 2011 13:58 | Quote
Joined: 17 Jul 2009
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'mostly correct things'

I'm going to correct a few things though, only to prevent misunderstandings - no pun intended!

1 3 5 7 9 11 13 is a M13 (probably just a typo)

13 is the octave of 6,
11 is the octave of 4,
and 9 is the octave of 2.
That's logical if you think about a diatonic scale having 7 degrees and the 8 being the octave of 1.

The rest was correct! :)

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