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Empirism  
21 May 2011 00:56 | Quote
Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Finland
Lessons: 4
Karma: 35
gshredder2112 says:
but listen.to.flamenco,the metal,the reggae!


most cases, yes they sound. Same shred licks or arpeggios heard trillion times on little different power chord progression or athmosphere and lyrics... reggae? everything sounds like bob marley anyway.

Flamenco? as much I love it, there can be found million of licks, progressions and a stuff similar than older songs made... but different thing is, that in Jazz, Blues and mayb reggae and flamenco those artist and listners as well as music lovers do not care a *** of it! They love music and that, that music LIVE! not hunting every friggin lick or progression found on some song to get some extra cash or "credit" that I DID IT! PRAISE ME! PAY ME!

This plagiarism crap is the thing that I HATE the most on music industry and I guarantee, that I stop buying artist records in that moment, he or she come out with plagiarism accuse against some one.

Emp
Empirism  
21 May 2011 00:56 | Quote
Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Finland
Lessons: 4
Karma: 35
gshredder2112 says:
but listen.to.flamenco,the metal,the reggae!


most cases, yes they sound. Same shred licks or arpeggios heard trillion times on little different power chord progression or athmosphere and lyrics... reggae? everything sounds like bob marley anyway.

Flamenco? as much I love it, there can be found million of licks, progressions and a stuff similar than older songs made... but different thing is, that in Jazz, Blues and mayb reggae and flamenco those artist and listners as well as music lovers do not care a ** of it! They love music and that, that music LIVE! not hunting every friggin lick or progression found on some song to get some extra cash or "credit" that I DID IT! PRAISE ME! PAY ME!

This plagiarism crap is the thing that I HATE the most on music industry and I guarantee, that I stop buying artist records in that moment, he or she come out with plagiarism accuse against some one.

Emp
gshredder2112  
21 May 2011 10:43 | Quote
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
United States
Licks: 3
Karma: 22
^^I meant how metal sounds different from reggae,not who one metal/reggae band sounds different from another.The bottom line is,IF your gonna borrow ask em first or quote them.in the credits.
case211  
21 May 2011 10:57 | Quote
Joined: 26 Feb 2009
United States
Lessons: 2
Licks: 6
Karma: 24
I think you guys may have forgotten that people are "influenced" by other people with things like this. Copying usually isn't the main goal of anyone, it just happens sometimes. It's going to and it shouldn't be about that aspect so much, but how much you enjoy the material even though some riffs sound like another songs; you may like it better than the other song. It's not so much a matter of stealing but really just a matter of time. Someone somewhere will find a progression that has been done before no matter what. Randy Rhoads was being sued by a country guitarist for the beginning arpeggio in Diary of a Madman! haha Was it a country tune? Definitely not, though that would be some badass coutry music :)
btimm  
21 May 2011 11:26 | Quote
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
United States
Lessons: 2
Licks: 1
Karma: 16
tinyskateboard says:
Take for example Johnny Cash stealing Hurt from Trent Reznor. He stole the song...he totally killed it...and surpassed NIN in every way. But it was eminently fair, because he did it better.


He didn't steal the song. He contacted Reznor and asked for permission to do a cover. He did the same thing with "Rusty Cage" by Soundgarden and all of his other covers. And they ARE given credit in the liner notes of the album as well. This is not a good example, because Cash acted as a professional in every facet of those covers and did things the right way.

Reznor was interviewed about the remake and said that he was amazed by how well Cash did the song, not thinking Cash would do it poorly of course, but just how well it was done. He said he no longer thinks of "Hurt" as his song anymore. That's amazing.
V3N0M3333  
21 May 2011 12:00 | Quote
Joined: 17 Mar 2011
United States
Lessons: 1
Licks: 15
Karma: 15
case211 says:
Someone somewhere will find a progression that has been done before no matter what.


this is the point i was trying to make, so thanks case.

@GS2112, what you said about the different genres of music isnt a really good point to make in my opinion.

i say that because some licks and riffs from one style of music were taken and used in a different way to create another style of music.

besides classical music from waaayyyy back then(which i feel is the roots for flamenco), i beleive that almost all of the styles of music today were started by blues and jazz. if not, they at least have some relation to it.

but then again, thats my opinion and some people might not agree.

but when it comes to stealing songs, i completely agree with you gs
tinyskateboard  
21 May 2011 13:18 | Quote
Joined: 28 Apr 2010
United States
Karma: 11
btimm: I was making a circular argument - even though Cash borrowed the song he ended up 'stealing the show'. I was trying to come up with a ridiculous example to convey how I felt about what Led Zep ended up with as they took a snippet of a song, completely changed the timbre of it, and injected it with a new and grandiose fervor.

Domigan_Lefty  
21 May 2011 15:16 | Quote
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
United States
Karma: 8
Can we make a seperate thread for all this "stealing vs. Not stealing" argument?

It's really annoying to see threads being hijacked like this.
V3N0M3333  
21 May 2011 15:19 | Quote
Joined: 17 Mar 2011
United States
Lessons: 1
Licks: 15
Karma: 15
yea i did make this thread for people to share their experience on the guitar over the amount of years they have been playing.
tinyskateboard  
21 May 2011 16:36 | Quote
Joined: 28 Apr 2010
United States
Karma: 11
Maybe this thread just made me argumentative, but this was not an everybody weigh in thread, it was only directed at people who are "really good".
V3N0M3333 says:
how long did it take some of you to get really good at playing guitar?...i am way ahead of where i should be(
gshredder2112  
21 May 2011 16:45 | Quote
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
United States
Licks: 3
Karma: 22
:c
Empirism  
22 May 2011 08:41 | Quote
Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Finland
Lessons: 4
Karma: 35
Oh yes domigan, lets make a new thread and start this over... LOL. You been here so long that you know that threads sometimes goes off the topic... but usually its cause because people discuss things and its directed to some way... and I think in here its all been in good manner and a stuff.

Things should taken lighthearted in a forums like Tiny is perfect example... its not so serious, we just discuss things in a text form. Simple as that.

There been discussion on orginal goal and some offtopic and for sure it goes on the trail again... the one who first reply.

Cheers
Emp
V3N0M3333  
22 May 2011 11:37 | Quote
Joined: 17 Mar 2011
United States
Lessons: 1
Licks: 15
Karma: 15
@tiny disregard the "really good" part. i just assumed everyone on this site was extremely good(or at least better than me) on guitar.

even if ur not, which doesnt even matter, what i was really looking for was guidelines to help me practice. some people said play how i feel, but i dont think its right that 1 day i practice chords/scales and the next day i practice advanced jazz licks. it actually kinda screws me up haha.

so just share your experience with the guitar
gshredder2112  
22 May 2011 13:16 | Quote
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
United States
Licks: 3
Karma: 22
Ok my shedule.
Monday-Jazz and jazz fusion rhythm,soloing techniques and theory.
Tuesday-Theory study-modes,arpeggios,triads,xteneded voicings.
Wednsday-Rock-metal soloing techniques and rhythms.
Thursday-Other instruments-backing tracks(piano,bass,drums)
Friday-classical and flamenco Fingerstyle.Neoclassical shredding
Saturaday-Free jam,play wat i want,and technique pratice
Sunday-Reggae and country rhythm.and soloing.
Reapeat.
\M/(*-+)
gs2112

*note.If anyone calls me rebecca black,There done XD
tinyskateboard  
22 May 2011 13:29 | Quote
Joined: 28 Apr 2010
United States
Karma: 11
Cool V3enon, a lot of us here are learning hella slow compared to what you describe. I work full time and have two kids who I take care of once I get home, so I don't get the luxury of hours of practice a day. So it takes a lot longer for people like me; and there are lots of people like me out there. I just couldn't make myself practice until I got older, when I was young I was caught up with other things.
Empirism  
22 May 2011 13:53 | Quote
Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Finland
Lessons: 4
Karma: 35
Wow GS, its no surprise your so good player with that wide training schedule. Keep it up m8, for me its like mo-su free jam where I have free time lol.

Now I have trained a little rumba rhythm techniques and triplets, but darn... I need much more.

If there become a day that I say Im good, shoot me. :D.

Emp
gshredder2112  
22 May 2011 15:02 | Quote
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
United States
Licks: 3
Karma: 22

Why thank you emp,I moved out to the country 2 yrs,and I have nothing else to do beside study music,My dad says i should enjoy all the pratice time i have now,because i wont have that luxury when i get older and have family,job,responsibities and such,personally i wish my social life wasnt as dead as it is,but hey guitar might benefit.me.later,as a giiging musician,or studio guitarist,so.its kinda like planning for.the future.

\M/(*-+)
gs2112

p.s. I you ever have any technique related questions(no theory,im like a brick when it comes to that)Lemme know,i got hundreds of exercises,licks,riffs and such ive wriiten and willing to share with whomever wants em.
V3N0M3333  
26 May 2011 18:13 | Quote
Joined: 17 Mar 2011
United States
Lessons: 1
Licks: 15
Karma: 15
wow GS thats really cool. i actually wish i didnt live in the city because i take guitar very seriously(top priorety). if i was in solitude i would practice everyday but i just get tempted to go outside and do something most of the time. i dont have a schedule, but i do practice more than 6 hours a day. on the weekends i practice from the time i wake up to the time i fall asleep if im not doing anything else. and im not really "genre-based", i just look up a lick in any style and play it. i feel that if you only study jazz and fusion licks in 1 day, then those licks that you learned are only limited to jazz and fusion style backing tracks. but you probably are a beast on guitar and i wanna hear you play one day
case211  
26 May 2011 19:18 | Quote
Joined: 26 Feb 2009
United States
Lessons: 2
Licks: 6
Karma: 24
It's not so much what you play but rather how you play it. Just because you took a lick from a jazz tune doesn't mean it can't be transferred to another style. Licks aren't really genre specific, they're just short musical phrases. Sometimes they are thought of as being more suited for one style of music(which is sometimes true) but usually any lick you learn can be used almost anywhere(if you change up the key of it accordingly).
gshredder2112  
26 May 2011 19:30 | Quote
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
United States
Licks: 3
Karma: 22
Wish granted venom.
http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/topic.php?id=4959
go to that link to hear me play.

And The solitude isnt all its cracked up to be,Its horribly depressing,especially since i dont have electricity,nor have i had it for 2 years.no amps /: You have options to either play or hang outside.I dont.Playing is all i do,I dont even like guitar as much as I used too,but if i didnt have it id probably go insane.As far as my genre based schedule,I have proficiency in all genres,and i play one a day because I feel i need to focus my attention on a specific style to make sure i properly understand it,and not just say"This is hard,im going to play a different genre"I force myself to fully comprhend something before i move on to next days lesson.Its justthe way i work.Backing tracks are universal,i could play chugging power chords over a jazz vamp,the real musical test is to make do with what you got.

\M/(*-+)
gs2112
V3N0M3333  
26 May 2011 20:58 | Quote
Joined: 17 Mar 2011
United States
Lessons: 1
Licks: 15
Karma: 15
gshredder2112 says:
the real musical test is to make do with what you got.


good words GS...and case, i fully agree with you
gshredder2112  
26 May 2011 22:25 | Quote
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
United States
Licks: 3
Karma: 22
Aprecciate dude,means alot.Did you check out my video by any chance,I love to hear feedback,especially from a fellow"shredderer".

\M/(*-+)
gs2112
AlexB  
27 May 2011 02:24 | Quote
Joined: 13 Jul 2009
Mexico
Licks: 2
Karma: 23
Lolwtfbbq



V3N0M3333  
27 May 2011 06:43 | Quote
Joined: 17 Mar 2011
United States
Lessons: 1
Licks: 15
Karma: 15
yea i watched the video, you are fast
gshredder2112  
27 May 2011 11:33 | Quote
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
United States
Licks: 3
Karma: 22
Thank you v3nom,and alex..┌∩┐(●_●)┌∩┐
AlexB  
27 May 2011 15:08 | Quote
Joined: 13 Jul 2009
Mexico
Licks: 2
Karma: 23
Ok here is the deal,i MUST be totally direct,someone was like this when i was young (Namely,Cesar Huesca,yes that famous mexican dude from youtube) and it helped me not only to understand how others perceive me but also how i must perceive myself,music wise

(C-o-c-k-y Alert)

Im 19,been playing for 6 years,and i ceertainly can say YES,im "better" than you,in less time i have done more that you (haha wtf i hate to say that kind of stuff)

The thing is,if you try to measure your "greatness" in TIME,time you spent studying theory,scales,"LEARNING" MUSIC, you are WRONG,is how you can use that timje to enrich yourself,to get "more" get it?

Venom,you simply CANT,in any place,that being a simple guitar forum like this,or a big audition,get over and say "hey,im totally awesome for my age,ive studied a lot of music and scales and super awesome techniques,im in or what?" you need proofs,not only proofs to yourself,but others (we) need to measure you "greatness" level based on what you can actually do,no what you say you know,get it?

6 years ago i didnt even know what a bass was,i failed my music class,i didnt like music,now i own my own audio/media production company with big names here in Mexico (still,Mexico sucks) how could a kid my age do that?! some call it natural talent,i do believe in that,cause i dont know how ive managed to get this "far"

i was too living the dream of "hey im THE mudafunka guitar player doods,i can play this and that and practice this stuff and jazz and fusion and i like styles you dont and weee and woo" but thatt didnt take me anywhere,you know why? because yeah,i liked and "played" lots of styles,i was the "excellent" shredder,i knew lots of stuff,but fact is,i actually SUCK(ED)

Many things in life showed me the way,and now here is goes to you GS,sincerelly,if that video is your presentation card,i would simply turn away and laught,not because im a douchebag,but because every big name is a douchebag when it comes to that matter,that no sense shredding will take you nowhere,you believe that what you do is right,i can tell you,it isnt,now,thats no reason to cry or even worse,to believe that what i say isnt true,we as young guitar players,specially "shredders" and "virtuosos" have the false thought that the world belong to us,no,we are still insignificant.

With this i conclude,it doesnt matter what you do,in how much time you do it,what matters is the result,you want to be the supreme master of guitar? go and actually practice how it is supposed to do,that means,DONT stick to guitar,dont be a guitar player 24/7

If you want to be an excellent musician,go out of your bubble and LEARN from other excellent musicians,if you want to writte simple songs with four chords and nice simple lyrics,study and do the best 4 chord songs,some people can be stars with little or no talent,others will never be BIG even with supreme talen,its up to everyone to think what you REALLY want,and do it,dont try,do it.

Hope everyone that reads this understands it,just like i did some years ago.

Mr Cocky has left the building
gshredder2112  
27 May 2011 15:45 | Quote
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
United States
Licks: 3
Karma: 22
Alexb,Im poor,i cant afford quality recording equipment,That video is all i have posted,and when someone asks to see me play,i show em that.I never claimed to be the greatest video in the world ,its all in fun.I dont want anything out of my guitar playing,No money,fame etc,I play ,shred,and learn out of enjoyment.Its a theraputic thing for me,im actually studying to be a phycholigist,so guitar is not nor will probably never be my carreer.As far as my practice shedule goes,i like alot of different genres,so i try to give em all equal attention.I dont not know what i did to be insulted like that,but if all that stuff you say is really true,maybe I should quit playing all together
AlexB  
27 May 2011 16:26 | Quote
Joined: 13 Jul 2009
Mexico
Licks: 2
Karma: 23
Again,is not an insult,i've seen it many times in here,you take any critique as an attack,its ok i dont blame you,i dont blame the quality of your video,your poornes,your motivation to play,even if its for fun or if its for being a rockstar,my point is,wherever you want to go,do your max,if you really want to be a good phycholigis,do it and do your best,if its for fun,have the funniest time around,the key is,again,find what you really want and do it.
gshredder2112  
27 May 2011 16:43 | Quote
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
United States
Licks: 3
Karma: 22
AlexB says:
Many things in life showed me the way,and now here is goes to you GS,sincerelly,if that video is your presentation card, would simply turn away and laught,not because im a douchebag,but because every big name is a douchebag when it comes to that matter,that no sense shredding will take you nowhere,you believe that what you do is right,i can tell you,it"shredders" and "virtuosos" have the false thought that the world belong to us,no,we are still insignificant !
You call that critique? Telling me that my pointless shredding will get me nowhere? saying that I think all those things you said up there. saying im insignifigant.You said i should have fun,but it will get me nowhere,yet you say try your best at something thats insignifigant,thats some kind of weird mixed message.I have taken things personnlay before,but thats irrelavamt right now.
AlexB  
27 May 2011 16:47 | Quote
Joined: 13 Jul 2009
Mexico
Licks: 2
Karma: 23
Haha its cool then dude,then we should both do our stuff and whatever works is the best
tinyskateboard  
27 May 2011 17:03 | Quote
Joined: 28 Apr 2010
United States
Karma: 11
we are all insignificant in the grand scheme

we can only try hard and be humble
gshredder2112  
27 May 2011 17:22 | Quote
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
United States
Licks: 3
Karma: 22
That sounds like a good plan alex.
V3N0M3333  
27 May 2011 17:45 | Quote
Joined: 17 Mar 2011
United States
Lessons: 1
Licks: 15
Karma: 15
i will have videos up soon and i already have 2 recordings of me playing(on facebook). alex, i also wanna hear you play, not because you claim to be as good as you say, but just because i like to hear other peoples styles.

see, the things that i say on this forum come from what other people who have actually heard me play said to me. im not speaking out of c-o-c-k-yness and saying "look everyone ive been playing for a year and a half and i can shred better than anyone else on this website".

and to be honest, "shred" is a very ugly word to me, i actually think i said that already on this forum but apparently no one caught that. playing guitar is not a sport to me as it appears to be to you alex.

AlexB says:
and i ceertainly can say YES,im "better" than you,in less time i have done more that you



Empirism  
27 May 2011 17:52 | Quote
Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Finland
Lessons: 4
Karma: 35
I should remain silent, but...no. Ofcourse not.

Well... Alex, you got some points there, but you forgot the destination. Where it should get me or us to? Interesting question, because answer depends quite much on person. Should my guitar playing take me to owning audio/media production studio with big names of my country or should it just take me to camp fire with my friends to play badly with horrible amount of booze in head? Well.. I might atleast have fun there... or it just get me to having a bad hangover.

Idea behind the doing what you are doing with 100% dedication and giving your best what you do is admirable. But that is only, if you are doing it with idea that it must get you somewhere... f0rexample if you have to be better than others among guitar players. you dont have to be top sharp, when doing things for fun... and you can do things for that.

I heard sometimes, that oneself is wanted to be a best guitar player on world... and to challenge my faith, oneself started to practise for that!... knowing already oneself never can accomplish that. Its sad if you ask me.

If time is measurement of quality of learning, playing and a stuff... I doubt that...nah I know that its not, because you even cant measure it when talking of big whole. You maybe can measure whos best on one technique, or who can play 187,23 notes more in a minute... but theres always those who say. Sorry, Im not interested.

Emp
AlexB  
27 May 2011 18:33 | Quote
Joined: 13 Jul 2009
Mexico
Licks: 2
Karma: 23
Exactly Emp,this is where i was going in the first place,ppl in here who know me a little know that im not that prick to brag about how awesome i am ;)

You cant measure with time how good you are (this was the main topic from the beggining) Venom said,ive got 1 1/2 years playing and i can do tons of hard techniques,ppl tell me i should have not done that but im good at it.

first thing then,can he actually do all that mighty stuff the way its supposed to be? we dont know! thats where i enter,first,show us what youve got to see if you can handle all those hard techniques they way it should be,not to say "hey you suck im betten than you",if he cant,then its moment to say "hey,easy,you should go this way instead"
taking in consideration that,in this case,technical achievements are measured in how far have you go in a certain period of time (i did it in 1 1/2 yers,and you?)

Again,if technical proficiency is what you aim,is cool,but be sure to do the things right.

If you actually read what i posted before,i never claimed to be the all mighty shred master,get the facts right my friend.
case211  
27 May 2011 18:53 | Quote
Joined: 26 Feb 2009
United States
Lessons: 2
Licks: 6
Karma: 24
How is "shred" an ugly word? I personally think it's the only way to describe a particular playing style. No more no less really. If you are a shredder, then you are. There's not a lot of ways around the fact that your playing style will still have the same basic fire and passion stemming from whatever style made you play the guitar in the first place. There's many players that are much more gifted than I can ever imagine being, but I don't look at it as a race, I merely know that there will never truly be a "best" in music, and I try to keep improving in my weaker areas.
My music could be awesome to some, could be a wall of noise to others(just ask CS ;) haha) That's how it will always be too. No sense in arguing over it. That's something I've learned over the last few years...
tinyskateboard  
27 May 2011 21:59 | Quote
Joined: 28 Apr 2010
United States
Karma: 11
V3n0M: As you no doubt have noticed, we have a lot less posts here than as someplace like the Telecaster forum (TDPRI.com). One of the things you need to do if you want to relate to others proclivities, you need to read back a few months of posts. If you have Anything left to learn, you will learn a lot from the archives. Included are posts with Alex and Shred playing. Other interesting things that are community building can be experienced.
V3N0M3333  
27 May 2011 22:31 | Quote
Joined: 17 Mar 2011
United States
Lessons: 1
Licks: 15
Karma: 15
the reason i stated how long i was playing in the 1st place was not to brag about how good i was in the amount of time i did it, it was only to see who may have had a similar experience in their time of playing or for anyone with many years of EXPERIENCE(not practice) to share what they know and how they got to be able to play it at whatever proficiency they can.

i agree, how good you are is not based on how long you have been playing. the only technique i actually said i was really good at was sweep picking. the other things i CAN do and i have utilized them in my playing, but they are not as developed as my sweep picking.

what i meant by saying shred being an ugly word is they way people use it now. for example, a lot of people say paul gilbert shreds. when i hear that i think they say shred because he plays fast, and thats it. all they see in paul gilbert is his speed when he is very tasteful and melodic in what he plays. i used to say shred myself. then when i saw people on youtube saying "shredding", i started to realize that they use it for playing a bunch of fast random notes(and no, i dont mean random as in improv).

and btw im not bashing any of the people on youtube or things like that b/c just for putting a video up of them playing, good or bad, they are bolder than me b/c i am somewhat of a punk when it comes to putting videos of me playing online. therefore, nobody will kno how good i really am until i hop over that wall of being scared of the criticism i will get, ill admit that.

but if you do want to hear a recording of me playing then i do have a solo from a couple of months ago

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Caesar-Da-Guard/192792524079172?sk=app_178091127385

the name of the song is mercy mercy and the solo starts around 3:18

tinyskateboard  
27 May 2011 23:20 | Quote
Joined: 28 Apr 2010
United States
Karma: 11
Mercy mercy me! Sounds great. I love this kind of tune.
Empirism  
28 May 2011 04:20 | Quote
Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Finland
Lessons: 4
Karma: 35
AlexB says:
Exactly Emp,this is where i was going in the first place,ppl in here who know me a little know that im not that prick to brag about how awesome i am ;)!


AlexB says:
If you actually read what i posted before,i never claimed to be the all mighty shred master,get the facts right my friend.!


As a VERY big fan of your playing and your videos on net, I knew that :).

to second quote, I never meant to mean that, I just pointed to invidual goals on playing...And I dont know, Im more amazed of your melodical awareness and thinking while playing more than shredding quality, which is also very good.

Emp
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