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Soloing Question

Music Theory
btimm  
23 Feb 2011 13:27 | Quote
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Okay, so I am reading up on some theory about soloing.

Let's talk about the ii-V-I progression here as an example. In this progression in the key of C, the V chord is a G7. So I could use a C major scale over this portion of the progression if I like, since the progression is in the key of C. In fact, I could just use C Ionian forever over this progression if I am correct.

However, that would be boring. If I understand what I am studying correctly, I could also use G Mixolydian over the G7 chord and that could sound a little more interesting. So basically this means that you would verify the key of the progression and when you go to each chord, you could use that specific mode for part of an improvisation, is this correct? Meaning that the person could use D Dorian over the Dmin7 chord?

Finally, what other scales or modes could be used for improv over these chords?

Thanks!
BodomBeachTerror  
23 Feb 2011 13:39 | Quote
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I think thats correct. Ive never really understood the mode thing to be honest, I learned all the modes as one big scale. I don't really get how one mode can sound better than another if they have the same notes.
btimm  
23 Feb 2011 13:43 | Quote
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Now I am confused again. Isn't C Ionian the same thing as G Mixolydian?!? *sigh*
MoshZilla1016  
23 Feb 2011 13:45 | Quote
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btimm if you use C Ionian for C chord, D Dorian for Dm7, G Mixolydian for G7 you are still using C Ionian over all of the chords. Just a different starting point or stressed note. They are all out of the C Major modes. You may already know this but just in case.
btimm  
23 Feb 2011 14:04 | Quote
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So what would be better to play over Dmin7 and G7? This is why I need a loop pedal, dang it. lol
MoshZilla1016  
23 Feb 2011 14:08 | Quote
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Those scale or modes would work best. I was just sayin that they are all the C major scale. Use D Dorian and G Mixolydian. Like BBT said I don't really rely on modes that much I look at the chord structure. In your case I would know that I'm playing a C major over all chords so I would stress the 2 note for Dmin7 and the 5 note for G Mixo. On a regular 1 4 5 you use Ionian Lydian and Mixo so play the 1 Major scale and stress the 4 and 5 note with the correct chord changes.
btimm  
23 Feb 2011 15:07 | Quote
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So I did some more studying. And apparently it is advisable for improv to know all forms of major scales, minor scales, and major and minor arpeggios. I feel like I am going to be learning these scales and arpeggios for years before I even really try to play guitar even halfway competently. lol
MoshZilla1016  
23 Feb 2011 15:41 | Quote
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That's what is so cool about guitar. The more I study the more things I realize that I don't know.
Admiral  
24 Feb 2011 01:59 | Quote
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One year ago i realised the same like you ^^ And I finally decided to limit myself. I started learning arpeggios, I knew a few of them, however, then I didnt play guitar for 2 months and I almost forgot all of them. It depends on how serious you want to be about playing guitar? But for arpeggios I would suggest, that you learn the scale with all its intervals over the whole fretboard. (Not just dots, intervals) Then you will automatically know, where your lets say F major apreggios are. And if you want to add a 7th note to it, no problem!

It is an endless journey, especially if you are into Jazz theory. Then you just cant get away only with pentatonics and Ionian/Aeolian :D
DannyEss  
24 Feb 2011 02:05 | Quote
Joined: 19 Oct 2010
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Btimm...having the ability to record your chord playing to try out what hear would be a fantastic idea. There are all kinds of options but I would recommend something you could use your computer.

Like the other guys in this post have said (The three scales you are considering) are all forms of the C major scale. What make a good solo verses a great solo requires great phasing. Many great guitarist even great lesser known guitarist like Frank Gambale say learn your phasing from playing the blues. The ii V I is a pretty standard jazz progression that using your modes ( D Dorian, G Mixolydian, and C Ionian) would be a good choice for your solo. Like Mosh said you are still using the same notes in the C major (ionian) scale but you would may want to emphasize the D, G, and C during the solo.

Depending on the contexts of the genre you want to emphasize (Blues, Jazz, Rock, etc.) the approach to your solo in your example of ii V I, I would consider different approaches.

If Santana Carlos look at this chord progression, he probably would oh its basicly written in mode D Dorrian and he would create riffs based on that. Many jazz players would follow the chord progressions and do the three modes, or appargios.

I personnally am a Jazz Fussion player with huge influence of blues would take this chord progression and start out in D dorian, then use some passing tones during the V to take me to a C Pentonic run to land on the C.

GuitarGeorge  
24 Feb 2011 15:20 | Quote
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something to try:

Dm7: D dorian, while stressing an f major triad (third fifth and seventh of the dm7)

G7: Play very "out" (but you must "feel it" and know that you're playing strange notes and what they sound like etc., otherwise it might just sound bad) by using an Bbm7 arpeggio (gives altered tones over the G7 - minor third, flattened fifth, seventh, flattened ninth)

Cmaj: RESOLVE THE OUT PLAYING TO A CHORD TONE (That'd be C, E, G or B (maybe D))

You could basically play whatever you want over the G7 as long as you resolve it smoothly on the C, hehe.
coleman  
25 Feb 2011 05:54 | Quote
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over the V chord you could play phrygian domanant to give it the flat nine extention just make sure to accent the flat 2nd then then resolve that to the fith of c to create some chromatic voice leading. seems like you got a good start.
btimm  
25 Feb 2011 08:31 | Quote
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This is a lot of great thoughts on improv, thanks to everyone, I have a fair amount of things to study now! :o)
RA  
26 Feb 2011 10:30 | Quote
Joined: 24 Sep 2008
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If where talking about jazz (be-bop), no good jazz player (be-bop) is going to be thinking in terms of scales. As you already know it's a logical nightmare. Think in term of the chords. Add extension to the chords. How do the extensions relate how to the chords flows. and on and on and on. Now how to know what extensions, subs, and on and on and on. well scales and chords are the same thing in the end study them both in relation to one another.

But really I would forget all of this to start out. To start out you really got to get your head around the melodies. Get a fake book, look at the tunes that are heavily based around this progression. Most of theses tunes are recommended for beginners anyway. Examples, "ALL the things your are," "Autumn leaves." "Tune up," the list goes on and on. Really look at the melodies and how they relate to the chords, that to me is the most important in learning how to solo. Jazz (yes even Be-bop) is put heavy influence on the melody.
coleman  
26 Feb 2011 22:19 | Quote
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i would disagree use both but think melodicly.
TheUndying  
23 Apr 2011 01:36 | Quote
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Solo can be done a lot of ways... You can take the scale over chord, or chord extension route. Or you can just play by feel. Granted playing by feel can be hit and miss as with this technique you might not be able to plan everything out so well... but then again if you can just feel it well enough. It takes a lot of the science out so you focus on the art. One day I will learn to use the scale over chord method... one day


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