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Baroque music, any tips?

Music Theory
Empirism  
21 Aug 2010 13:14 | Quote
Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Finland
Lessons: 4
Karma: 35
If anyone of you have a knowledge or tips, where to start with composing baroque music, chord progressions, scales, websites, anything goes.. thanks in advance.

Empirism
Admiral  
21 Aug 2010 13:37 | Quote
Joined: 10 May 2009
Germany
Lessons: 1
Karma: 12
http://www.standingstones.com/bachharm.html
here is something one bach, have fun analyzing ^^
Empirism  
21 Aug 2010 14:46 | Quote
Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Finland
Lessons: 4
Karma: 35
Cool thanks for this, Bach is really brilliant.. Four seasons is also my true favorite (who doesnt? :P), I thought I start to study Baroque and medieval music to widen my understanding.. even thou this is really hard lol, but I found it really interesting, during my researches I found huge list of very pleasant music.

Cheers, keep em comin :)
Empirism
RA  
21 Aug 2010 15:09 | Quote
Joined: 24 Sep 2008
United States
Karma: 16
well obviously listen, and study Bach(no brainier huh).

but unfortunately I'm going to have to put down admirals post(not that is not good, I'll explain). Bach is studied a lot today for better understanding of chord voicing, and his excellent melodic sense(he actually gets put down sometimes for this[his Melody], i think they're dumb). then to learn baroque music, and Admiral post is more about that(modern usage).

the problem learning Baroque music is that it is polyphonic(Melodies on top of melodies) and modern music is homophobic(chords with melodies played over). It also monophonic(single note) via Bach's more famous piece "prelude from cello suite no .1 in G minor" (play by guitarist in D major due to lack of low C#)

so learning it in chord progression form(at lest at first) is wrong for understating how to compose Baroque style. remember Bach didn't play 7th chords he just played four different melodies.

now the key to this music is counterpoint. and to start of your have to lean simple point again point. A good start is Bach's Minute in G major. So to start of if it's got more than two melodies stay away. The playing is actually suited to the guitar very well(finger picking and independent right hand fingers[more than thumb and sold fingers] is a requirement) due to it being first devolved on the lute(no pianos yet and organs were rare).

as for scales this is where church modes were officially dead(actually late Renaissance) so major, minor tonality, but this is common practice minor, not modern day so harmonic minor/ascending,descending melodic minor more so then aeolian thinking.

for books the best intro into the theory is "the study of counterpoint," by Johann Fux. that's it in English but it by far the most popular and has been for years and years(Mozart's lesson form his father where form it) so there is more then one translation, but wouldn't know the title, just look for Fux. There are online versions of the book, but to me the book it better.

Then i would get Bach's 371 chorales WITH 69 figure bass melodies. The chorales are more advance, but the figure bass is point against point, and the Chorales are THE music for Counterpoint knowledge, little planing for the future maybe(also really good for chord voicing knowledge really test you and your hands).

Then I'd get a Bach Song book simple one then move up. I love Bach if you can't tell learn are others that i like(Scarlatti, Vivaldi) but i wouldn't start there or know if that they have good easier(even guitar playable, without have modds) pieces.


Here is a video of one of my fav guitar players on baroque, over you head more then likely but it is nice to listen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zkuo2384ZN4&feature=search
Admiral  
21 Aug 2010 15:36 | Quote
Joined: 10 May 2009
Germany
Lessons: 1
Karma: 12
Haha, this guy is mad, he looks like hes just sitting there, looking like hes thinking about nothing special and he does crazy improvisations. Thanks for the link and the good post
Empirism  
21 Aug 2010 18:38 | Quote
Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Finland
Lessons: 4
Karma: 35
Wow that was excellent, I noticed he spoke about cycle of sixths, but I couldnt follow the connection of it.. bookmarked for sure.

RA says:
Then i would get Bach's 371 chorales WITH 69 figure bass melodies. The chorales are more advance, but the figure bass is point against point, and the Chorales are THE music for Counterpoint knowledge, little planing for the future maybe(also really good for chord voicing knowledge really test you and your hands). !


that sounds really cool, Bach basslines or ways he used low voices gets my attention often when listening his compositions.

ive been reading about counterpoints, but Im very new with it yet. Ill check that fux.
guitarmastergod  
21 Aug 2010 21:16 | Quote
Joined: 09 Sep 2008
Canada
Karma: 8
neapolitean chord progressions :P look it up.

Emin - Fmaj (neapoltian of Eminor) - Emin - Bmaj



RA  
22 Aug 2010 11:05 | Quote
Joined: 24 Sep 2008
United States
Karma: 16
hmmm i don't even think spell check could help that catastrophe. Yes modern music is very homophobic, in my defense the "N key" is right next to the 'B key"

well to clean up one thing I don't think i explained very well, is that it is not that there is no chord progress or there not important, it is just that you don't start there to learn how to compose it. Just like in Jazz one of the first things to get down is the ii-V-I progression. In Polyphony the first thing is to learn how to put a counter point to a melody. You wont even being modulating at all so there kind of short(most of the 69 melodies are 15 bars at most, and fux's lessons are like 5-10 bars)

just a heads up on the 69 melodies there not very musical in a way there more of a training tool, to help in understanding and to start hearing them. it would also be good to get excess to a keyboard, due too all this stuff being made for it and you'll run into octaves problems(a lot of the time it does work out to just move up one). And you need to know Bass Clef

as for sixths, i don't remember(saw it a long time ago) where that is, but Mediant intervals are important, and depend upon if the melody is above or below the counterpoint, if it is a third or a sixth. so i was to guess he was descending.

here is the book I own. again the intro is in English but it is mainly about it being put into English(so who cares) and the music is universals so who cares really. I don't know if that matters i don't want to offend you(so if i have i hope you'll except my apology), but i sure would be piss always having to read English(i speak it and i don't even like it)

http://www.amazon.com/Harmonized-Chorales-Chorale-Melodies-Figured/dp/0793525748/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=musical-instruments&qid=1282492724&sr=8-4
Empirism  
22 Aug 2010 11:34 | Quote
Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Finland
Lessons: 4
Karma: 35
:D, no offence taken RA, thanks for great posts and tips. Those more important than language they are written. I know I have quite and task as well as musically than literally ahead :D, but hell, I have all time in the world, because no recording companies or expectations burden my shoulders :)

Cheers
Mistaluke  
22 Aug 2010 19:29 | Quote
Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Karma: 11
lol....
what's a barque?
...
(Im here to learn ) :p
if ya dont mind explaining.
RA  
22 Aug 2010 20:52 | Quote
Joined: 24 Sep 2008
United States
Karma: 16
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baroque_music

not trying to be an ass it is just all there, why try and fail to type it. especially in my case

MoshZilla1016  
24 Aug 2010 15:12 | Quote
Joined: 10 Jul 2010
United States
Lessons: 4
Licks: 19
Karma: 16
guitarmastergod says:
neapolitean chord progressions :P look it up.

Emin - Fmaj (neapoltian of Eminor) - Emin - Bmaj


THANK YOU. I did look it up. It also led me to German, French and Italian sixth. I'll be busy for days. THANKS AGAIN!!!


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