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Jazz chords

Music Theory
nullnaught  
27 Jun 2010 14:14 | Quote
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Karma: 22
Are jazz chords 13ths, 11ths and 9ths ect. ect?
guitarmastergod  
28 Jun 2010 09:43 | Quote
Joined: 09 Sep 2008
Canada
Karma: 8
it was my assumption that any chord could be jazzy in the right spot. i think its usually 7th's and above though. ask jazz
nater2  
28 Jun 2010 09:55 | Quote
Joined: 28 May 2009
United States
Karma: 4
yes, all the chords you mentioned are "jazz" chords. but i also would agree guitarmastergod. here is a list my teacher gave me of the basic jazz chords. i'll put them in C to make it simple.

Cmaj7
C7
C7b5
C7#5
Cm7
C half dim7 (Cm7b5)
C dim 7
C7sus

and you can play 99% of all jazz tunes with those chords
carlsnow  
28 Jun 2010 12:24 | Quote
Joined: 29 Apr 2009
United States
Lessons: 2
Karma: 23
Don't mean to sound like an ass(so please don't take this negatively), but there really is no such thing as a "jazz chord"....just as there is no 'Jazz-scale'
a scale is a chord is a scale anyways so (lol) both can be said with the shorthand 'ChordScale' (a term used in most modern Scores)

+ As a Guitar-Teacher the term just bugs the crap outta me, in the same way the "blues scale" (really just a b5 added to Minor-Pent, creating a Hexotonic(6-tone) scale ).


the term 'jazz chord" has carries an annoying sort of 'stuffiness' or pretension with it, which i hit-on in a post i made a few weeks back.
(It aint you OR yer teacher at all Nater2, its a problem that has been around since before 70's, when i began my lessons). I'm sure this bugs your teacher as well, ask him sometime, lol, tell him another teacher was wondering) :)

The problem is this:
Many students (or parents) relate the word "Jazz" with "difficult", which is by no means the case; Jazz is played with the same chords every other form of music is played with, although although a flatted 5th ("the blue note")or Dominant 7th may factor in a bit more in Jazz playing, it's really the same as any other western tonal music.

(Jazz is defined by the presence of much improvisation over the form.)

nater2 says:

Cmaj7
C7
C7b5
C7#5
Cm7
C half dim7 (Cm7b5)
C dim 7
C7sus
and you can play 99% of all jazz tunes with those chords


This is simply untrue. perhaps your teacher was referring to the voicing of sus, dim, dom7 etc chords as being used quite a bit by Jazz piano, Guitar, sax ...etc players. but certainly not 99% ... not by a looong stretch.

anyways, just trying to straighten out a point that is quite often either misstated or misunderstood. (take no offense)

hope that cleared some stuff up for y'all :) ... if ya want a more in-depth explanation, please don't hesitate tho ask. Though it looks to me like your teacher has you on a great path! those chords are often overlooked, underplayed , and have a huge role in giving you a full understanding of the fretboard... keep it up!

RAWK!
Cs


Global Disclaimer :
Carl Snow is an old, jaded & slightly bitter old man who cannot be held accountable for anything, much less his opinionatedly opinionated opinions or those of his imaginary friends. We sincerely apologize if this Carl Snow and/or its behavior have infected you or others with its ugly brain and its juices.
nater2  
28 Jun 2010 12:38 | Quote
Joined: 28 May 2009
United States
Karma: 4
yea, not sure if i worded that correct or not. i think what he meant was that once you learn these 8 basic chords you can play a lot of jazz songs because of course you can substitute chords. but i totally get what your saying. thanks for the tips!
JazzMaverick  
29 Jun 2010 09:52 | Quote
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
United Kingdom
Lessons: 24
Licks: 37
Karma: 47
Moderator
haha Carl beat me to it!

The best thing to do is to listen to Jazz - learn the chords so you understand that anything can go. Jazz works outside the rule book and that's basically why it's considered so fun (or so outrageous to some).

Basically what you need to do is learn the theory - and every time you learn something new - APPLY IT!! Music is physical for musicians, so don't get carried away with theory - make sure you can actually play what you know.
nullnaught  
30 Jun 2010 05:28 | Quote
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Karma: 22
Thanks carl.
carlsnow  
30 Jun 2010 07:55 | Quote
Joined: 29 Apr 2009
United States
Lessons: 2
Karma: 23
nullnaught says:
Thanks carl.


no problem at all, nullnaught, i'm happy to be of help.

and of those chords you spoke of...
nullnaught says:
13ths, 11ths and 9ths ect.
the NAMES may sound 'difficult' , but the actual Voicings(chords) are not, if you learn and practice finding a few fairly simple things ...

Chords are groups of three or more notes:

since the (standard) major scale is the source of all (western) chords ... remember this.
we have 12 tones, 7 of which, are whole tones and 5 are 'partials' (sharps # and Flats b)(and these are congruent in that a b5th = a #4th, dig?)
so take the lot of them without partials and ya have the standard count:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7

like i said 3 tones = a chord so:
Triadically (3-tones) there three BASIC chord-scales found via the western tri-tone:
1 3 5 = major (M)
1 b3 5 = Minor (m)
and
1 b3 b5 = Diminished (dim or the o-symbol)
(ya don't flat the one, because, obviously that would change the key)

the SEVEN is a huge factor in chordal-voicings(and very confusing to most at first, due to it's having two positions (7 and b7) and THREE
basic "names" (maj7, min7, and dom7(Dominant)in this chord-scale.
(this is largely dependent on the 3, or 3rd, but I'll not go into that now, just lay out a few more instances.

after the triadic stuff you'll find groups of four (bet ya guessed that one lol)
1 3 5 7 = Maj-7
1 3 5 b7 = Dominant7 (noted as '7')
1 b3 b5 b7 = 1/2-Diminished
and
1 b3 b5 bb7 = **Diminished 7th
**(and yes the bb7 is the same NOTE as a 6th , but when writing more complex chord-scales the double-flat actually makes things LESS confusing...odd i know, but true nonetheless)

so if you take the above chord-scales and add a note or two you will find you 9's 13's 11's and such.

here is an easy lil 'chart' to remember when figuring out those chords.
played in an octave above:
2 = 9
4 = 11
6 = 13
SO.....
1 3 5 7 9 = major 9th (9 = octave of 2)
1 3 5 7 9 11 = major 11th (11 = octave of 4)
1 3 5 7 9 11 13 = major 13th (13 = octave of 6)

ALL of the above is very changeable via flatting a 3rd or 7th , etc...
its not much BUT its a start! :)


RAWK!
Cs


Global Disclaimer :
Carl Snow is an old, jaded & slightly bitter old man who cannot be held accountable for anything, much less his opinionatedly opinionated opinions or those of his imaginary friends. We sincerely apologize if this Carl Snow and/or its behavior have infected you or others with its ugly brain and its juices.









heptachrome  
30 Jun 2010 15:54 | Quote
Joined: 30 Jun 2010
Karma
wow cool
heptachrome  
30 Jun 2010 15:55 | Quote
Joined: 30 Jun 2010
Karma
yeah
nullnaught  
2 Jul 2010 12:48 | Quote
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Karma: 22
What is a C7sus? Shouldnt the sus be stated as sus2 or sus4?
carlsnow  
2 Jul 2010 17:00 | Quote
Joined: 29 Apr 2009
United States
Lessons: 2
Karma: 23
nullnaught says:
What is a C7sus? Shouldnt the sus be stated as sus2 or sus4?


okay ; heres 'the deal' ...
if ya write Asus or Esus (whatever-sus) it's generally accepted that you mean sus4, due to the 3 being 'suspended' by the Four.
Therefore, ya see sus2 a lot due to 'sus' meaning sus4 ... confusing as all hell, i know, but! Tis True!

and that b7th in your C7 brings another 'omission' to light:
>>rather than write Cdominant7 ( = b7th) we simple say "seven" and the flat-seven, or 'dominant' (dom) is 'taken for granted..
thus not much C-dom7's around, just C7's ...

so
>>if ya see C7sus think C(dom)7sus4
and, well
sus2 speaks for itself.

RAWK!
Cs


Global Disclaimer :
Carl Snow is an old, jaded & slightly bitter old man who cannot be held accountable for anything, much less his opinionatedly opinionated opinions or those of his imaginary friends. We sincerely apologize if this Carl Snow and/or its behavior have infected you or others with its ugly brain and its juices.



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