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SOUNDproofing

General Chat
harleyofdoom  
29 May 2010 11:35 | Quote
Joined: way back
United States
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Hello boys and girls of allguitarchords,

I finally got a new band together (woop) and we are practicing in the bassists basement. we just rearranged the whole room to get a better sound and its a very beefy setup when everyone starts jamming, maybe a little too beefy for the neighbors. it really needs to be soundproofed before he starts gettin noise complaints. do any of you have experience soundproofing large areas? could you offer advice on how to do it for cheap/free?
btimm  
29 May 2010 14:13 | Quote
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
United States
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Best way I know of is with special insulation behind the drywall. It's not cheap but will work for sure. I don't know of any cheap routes to take, other than telling the neighbors basically that you won't play during certain periods of time. That is what I did when I was younger when I played drums. The neighbors didn't care because I never played after 8:30 pm. Respect them and they should respect you.
case211  
29 May 2010 14:16 | Quote
Joined: 26 Feb 2009
United States
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Karma: 24
Carpet can also help if you don't mind having it on the walls :P
carlsnow  
29 May 2010 20:54 | Quote
Joined: 29 Apr 2009
United States
Lessons: 2
Karma: 23
easy

what kills sound ? ..air!

so

In the area you wanna soundproof , create a false-wall about 6" out(away) from the 'real wall'
Next…
Install …
(This is an opinion RE: "lemme wait on this part till i have the ‘extra cash’ for this!")
…sound damping materials were needed (see: Aurolex) and cover with cloth (further spatial damping en-room)

Yer 'good to go’ !

RAWK!
Cs



PS :
[[1- the "fake wall" kills the sound via 'bounce'
2- the addition of (professional or egg-crate) sound-damping material kills/greatly-reduces transients]]


Global Disclaimer :
Carl Snow is an old, jaded & slightly bitter old man who cannot be held accountable for anything, much less his opinionatedly opinionated opinions or those of his imaginary friends. We sincerely apologize if this Carl Snow and/or its behavior have infected you or others with its ugly brain and its juices.



btimm  
30 May 2010 03:14 | Quote
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
United States
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Actually, air is about the worst thing to attenuate sound. It's the extra wall itself that provides the vast majority of the sound proofing.
JazzMaverick  
30 May 2010 06:11 | Quote
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
United Kingdom
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Moderator
Egg boxes dude :) Cheapest way to do it!

After that, I'd do what Carl said!
carlsnow  
30 May 2010 08:57 | Quote
Joined: 29 Apr 2009
United States
Lessons: 2
Karma: 23
btimm says:
Actually, air is about the worst thing to attenuate sound. It's the extra wall itself that provides the vast majority of the sound proofing.


no, lol, actually trapping sound in air between barriers really IS the best soundproofing and Jazzy's Egg-Crates and/or my Aurolex (4" staggered Pyramids + Bass Traps-etc) are the best at 'Sound DAMPING' IE: killing a rooms 'standing-waves'

remember :
Sound travels much easier through solids than non-solids. so any constructed wall acts as a "come on in!" agent that leads to the diffusing air between it and wall two , so if possible, 2-6" false walls should be used if going for max soundproofing.

Sound-Damping and Room - Treatments are more difficult to figure, as all rooms (in some way) are different and so , require different approaches (at times VASTLY different).

RAWK!
Cs



btimm  
30 May 2010 10:30 | Quote
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
United States
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carlsnow says:
remember :
Sound travels much easier through solids than non-solids.


That's kinda my point. Air is a gas and not a solid. It is the extra wall that helps in your strategy, and not the air. If you were to put some other medium in place of air (not cheap, nor practical or necessary), it would be much better sound proofing.
Admiral  
30 May 2010 10:49 | Quote
Joined: 10 May 2009
Germany
Lessons: 1
Karma: 12
Yeh, i think btimm is right here. I also know the egg-box strategy. I didn't believe it at first as well, but it does work pretty well for the amount of money you have to invest. Otherwise foamed plastic is also a pretty cheap way to pimp up your walls in terms of soundresistance.
Ozzfan486  
30 May 2010 10:52 | Quote
Joined: 01 Oct 2008
United States
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I feel like I'm back in science class reading all this lol. It is quite helpful though. I've been wanting to know about this myself for some time.
carlsnow  
30 May 2010 11:00 | Quote
Joined: 29 Apr 2009
United States
Lessons: 2
Karma: 23
btimm says:
It is the extra wall that helps in your strategy


sorry .. mebbe yer thinking one thing and me, another... but a pocket of air between two false walls works best ...
only way i've seen that improved on = using forward-facing Aurolex(or similar) on the 'real' wall, deflecting back to the fake wall(s).

the other stuff I mentioned = simple sound treatment options for Mastering (or recording) spaces.

RAWK!
Cs

PS:

perhaps something was/is lost in translation. (which = a small pun as i had many 'translation problems' Mastering a Jaco (Pastorius) tribute for (talk about confusing) JVC(Sony)Japan WHILE working up a Master of an old Soft Machine (w/ Holdsworth) CD for Moonjune Rec (Germany) through the same 'contact' LOL English to German to Japanese to English to German to Japanese to... whew!
...so i can EASILY see us, two USA guys having a bit of semantical/lexicon-based confusion(s)
LOL!
Admiral  
30 May 2010 11:35 | Quote
Joined: 10 May 2009
Germany
Lessons: 1
Karma: 12
ah well, now i understand the way you mean it Cs, i don't know about the air pocket between two fake walls. Interesting idea.
btimm  
30 May 2010 13:51 | Quote
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
United States
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Yeah, I mean I am not disagreeing with you CS, that is definitely something that will work (ummm, years of experience on your part, I trust your advice, lol).

All I was saying is that if you something else between the walls, like for example, 6 feet of insulation, it would be even better than the air at sound proofing. Or water, although it's a silly idea to put water there of course. But you can think how sound travels through air when talking versus through water. And I said it wouldn't be a good idea to put anything in that space, because the wall helps so much that air will do as the medium.

SO we're not really disagreeing, I am just pointing out that the air isn't what helps as much as the extra wall itself.
telecrater  
30 May 2010 14:06 | Quote
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
United States
Lessons: 8
Karma: 13
harleyofdoom says:
Hello boys and girls of allguitarchords,

I finally got a new band together (woop) and we are practicing in the bassists basement. we just rearranged the whole room to get a better sound and its a very beefy setup when everyone starts jamming, maybe a little too beefy for the neighbors. it really needs to be soundproofed before he starts gettin noise complaints. do any of you have experience soundproofing large areas? could you offer advice on how to do it for cheap/free?


Back to the original problem...

If the neigbors to complain you may need to look at other places to jam. I know round here (san antonio) there a bunch of these Practice pad's that they will rent by the hour. they are sually old office builing turned into lesson studios and were old office building that have been sound proofed. They charge something along $10 a hour.
carlsnow  
30 May 2010 14:55 | Quote
Joined: 29 Apr 2009
United States
Lessons: 2
Karma: 23
btimm says:
But you can think how sound travels through air when talking versus through water.


right! water is (i can imagine the wall) the worst possible (other than a metal)"material" to soundproof as it is the opposite of 'dead-air' and is, surprisingly enough one of sounds best conduits IE: sound travels miles in water (think whales) while the perturbations of air molecules kill it (sound) ...that fact used to freak me out buuut, tis true, tis true.
I disagree re: filling the space to be soundproofed (between false walls) I've worked in(or for) many studios that have tried very very different approaches to the whole "i want more (lol) than JUST air in that space, by gawd!" aesthetic. L O O S E (as in very-very 'loose') insulation works fairly well but BY FAR the best 'filler' i've come across can be purchased in bulk at (hold onto yer hat) the local UPS/Fed-ex Shipping 'store' ... the 'packing peanuts' work wonders BUT "that shipping stuff that drive ya bonkers near X-Mas" AKA BB-Sized 'Styrofoam spheres'(or a tad larger , or mixed sizes) has impressed me the most, and for (i never thought of using it) good reason(s): not only do the varying sizes of the spheres disrupt the flow of sound-waves, but they are, by design, made of a very (lol)'hole-y' (lots of air molecules) substance (packing-Styrofoam)

all in all the wide worlds of
sound-proofing
sound-damping
sound-sculpting (a mix/master room)
and
sound management (the 'live room' verses the 'drum room'/'vocal booth'-etc)
continue to challenge and fascinate me.

as for my experience, sure i have put many years into this field but nothing like some of the shoulders i've worked over and with...
My friend Dave Ball (David 'Seva' Ball) who engineered and mastered a few bands and projects of mine in the 90's (as well as being our (Whitey) Live, FOH-sound-man(armed at the board w/ a Moog), was though by me to have fallen off the earth, which would be just like the strange bugger, but re-appeared with the coolest studio-gig i've heard of inna loong time... Check this out: Dave got a grant from the Grammy foundation as well (as some other foundation i'll have to re-ask him about) to restore and Master ALL of Robert Moog's original recordings.
Jealous? me? surely not! ha-ha!
....juss kidding , he is a gem of a crazy guy and i'm looking forward to hearing what he does with the Moog material!
(Oh he was the Co-Founder and inventor of many apps Via Waves-Ltd, as well... so he is that kinda genious that, while i love watching, could not imagine being as THAT kinda genious (as muh mentor Terry would say) "costs too much"

So yes, i have a ton of experience in the field but lol The Grammy Folks dont call me, lol, they call "Commander Dave" (and fer good reason)

ANY-WHO...

thanks for the nice discourse, i rarely think about 'standing waves', 'soundprofing' and the like anymore BUT on the rare occasions the topic DOES come up , i find myself re-obsessed by it and always learn something :)
(and that, is what ITS all about)

Hopefully there will be MORE REC-Mix-Master-Etc posts as folks in the field join this fine, fine forum !

RAWK!
Cs


Global Disclaimer :
Carl Snow is an old, jaded & slightly bitter old man who cannot be held accountable for anything, much less his opinionatedly opinionated opinions or those of his imaginary friends. We sincerely apologize if this Carl Snow and/or its behavior have infected you or others with its ugly brain and its juices.

btimm  
30 May 2010 16:50 | Quote
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
United States
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Karma: 16
Yeah, I just meant that experience will do wonders with what works and what doesn't work. :o)
carlsnow  
31 May 2010 14:08 | Quote
Joined: 29 Apr 2009
United States
Lessons: 2
Karma: 23
btimm says:
Yeah, I just meant that experience will do wonders with what works and what doesn't work. :o)


Ha-Ha! EXACTLY, thats why I don't
1- Work on our Bikes or the car (baring oil, etc)
2- Do ANY "home improvement" (i'd lose fingers and wreck the house)
3- attempt to give directions to my home!
but i do watch (and hope to one day learn lol) those that can do these things well.

so yeah, btimm ...experience is a great thang, whether its yours or another's *-)

RAWK!
Cs


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