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Life after the Pentatonic Scale, Whats next?

Technique
Crash171  
20 Oct 2009 19:08 | Quote
Joined: 09 May 2009
United States
Karma: 2
I have all 5 of the Pentatonic Scale positions memorized and can tear them up. WHATS NEXT?? I want something that has more of a rock sound to it.

(Just in-case I have the name of the scale wrong here is the one im talking about http://www.learn-guitar-online.com/images/PS%20Lesson%2010%20Ex%201.jpg )
EMB5490  
20 Oct 2009 19:49 | Quote
Joined: 10 Feb 2008
United States
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minor and maj scales nd their modes.
nater2  
20 Oct 2009 19:57 | Quote
Joined: 28 May 2009
United States
Karma: 4
yea i learned those scales too and their are extensions too them that add 4ths 7ths etc.
Ozzfan486  
20 Oct 2009 20:21 | Quote
Joined: 01 Oct 2008
United States
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Karma: 18
I like to learn chords more. You can build songs more or less of of chords and then use scales. What I've found after not taking lessons anymore is that what I know of the scales I've learned, I've incorporated so much into my playing that it's second nature to me. Actually, I think I need to learn a couple more! haha! SOOOOO, I guess I'll join in with you crash and if anyone has any good bluesy scales that can easily be incorporated into hard rock lemme know dudes!

Ozz
AlexB  
20 Oct 2009 22:10 | Quote
Joined: 13 Jul 2009
Mexico
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Minor scale!!!! and then Modes!!
Guitarslinger124  
21 Oct 2009 01:02 | Quote
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
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Moderator
Considering that the minor (natural minor) is a mode in a major key, I would Suggest learning the Major or Ionian scale first. Then follow up with the rest of the modes in a Major key.
Crash171  
21 Oct 2009 15:34 | Quote
Joined: 09 May 2009
United States
Karma: 2
OK I have three votes for the Minor scale. Can anyone point me to it?
BodomBeachTerror  
21 Oct 2009 15:36 | Quote
Joined: 27 May 2008
Canada
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Karma: 25
http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/guitar_scales.php?qqq=FULL&scch=E&scchnam=Aeolian&get2=Get&t=0&choice=1

bam
carlsnow  
21 Oct 2009 18:07 | Quote
Joined: 29 Apr 2009
United States
Lessons: 2
Karma: 23
Learn your *Chords
(*(now vastly ignored and replaced with silly 'lil two-finger 1+5 intervals)

Chords = the Rosetta Stones, the decoder-ring that unlock a Planks many mysteries.

after less than 2 years of studying, playing, and exploring (+ hopefully witting) with these forgotten shapes, Modal(Scalier) Playing will SOUND quite different to you, and will also be far easier to 'hear' in a tune (no need for a theory book just yet).
When you begin to hear these Scales/Modes 'beging to come out' , its time for some deep modal study; but do NOT let theory kill your imagination!
AKA : "if it sounds good to you, it sound good"

But I do start my students of with a few easily learned modal progressions, such as learning, in F cause ya have the whole board; the Ionian (Major) Scale and its 7 modes...if nothing else this will "teach" your fingers and ears how to : act independently, hear the chord(S) within scales, create bridges from mode to mode to mode (and as an added bonus it'll really start yer right hand off well)

but remember : Chords, Chords, Chords ...
from Major and Minor to Eb-sus/add-11 and D#dom7aug4, diminished..etc etc etc

...after that and a few more years practicing and you'll be having the time of your life with more emotive scales and such! Harmonic-Minor + its 7 modes, Harmonic-Major +7, Melodic-Major +7...
and THAT is just the TIP of a wonderful iceberg!!


Hope that helped!

RAWK!
Cs
Ozzfan486  
21 Oct 2009 18:16 | Quote
Joined: 01 Oct 2008
United States
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Carl's right about the "If it sounds good to you, it is good" thing. Thats a lie. I've heard plenty of people go to me, or someone else like "Dude, this sounds GREAT!". And I/the person it was said to was all "Okay cool dude. Let's hear it!". ......and then they play it. Dun dun duuuuuunnnnnn.
carlsnow  
22 Oct 2009 07:20 | Quote
Joined: 29 Apr 2009
United States
Lessons: 2
Karma: 23
Ozzfan486 says:
Carl's right about the "If it sounds good to you, it is good" thing. Thats a lie.


i'm not sure i get your meaning
Cs
case211  
22 Oct 2009 08:03 | Quote
Joined: 26 Feb 2009
United States
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@ozz
I think that he means for the individual...

I can play something that I like and really think sounds quite awesome, yet some other people won't like it.
more about the person's ears and brain than anything.
carlsnow  
22 Oct 2009 10:03 | Quote
Joined: 29 Apr 2009
United States
Lessons: 2
Karma: 23
case211 says:
@ozz
I think that he means for the individual...

I can play something that I like and really think sounds quite awesome, yet some other people won't like it.
more about the person's ears and brain than anything.


Alex, ya wizz-kid, you...i wish i could shoot more Karma yer way!
You are correct!
...and i very much doubt Ozz was intending to call me a Liar.
Sooooo

Imagine 5 guys soloing over a simple 1-4-5 :
1-Albert Collins
2-James Blood Ulmer
3-Jeff Beck
4-Paul Gilbert
and
5-Bill Frissel

These are players who have been around a long time and dont have to think in modes, though they, doubtless, use them.

We'll never know which of these stellar players enjoyed wich other player's aforementioned solo, but there would be a few. there would also be a few who did not like the others ideas and on and on etc...

Music; In this case guitar solo's, often can be, but were/are not intended to sound like mastrubatory experiences, nor were they 'intended' to be a function that pleases every ear it touches.
This is where "taste" , or more pointedly-> subjectivity enter the picture.
IE: Jimi Hendrix is hated by some (insane-i know) and loved by some for the same reason: his willingness to experiment and ignore theory.
The same can be said of such improvisational-greats as Thelonius Monk, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, and certainly Ornette Coleman, Sun Ra and the like...

loved and or hated for it, all of the above (even Gilbert, lol) have "tossed out" theory in exchange for plaing from the gut and or experimenting with the semi-unknown.

I don't always like what these cats come up with, but they remain favorites of mine, nonetheless.

now switch "sides"
(all statements here have EXCEPTIONS)
I really dislike 80-90% of all 'Metal' guitar solo's
I flat-out hate "Elevator-Jazz" ('Paint by Numbers'(or modes) crap like Yellowjackets , Rippingtons, Tom Scott, Kenny G)
I love "Skronk-Jazz" (John Zorn, Elliot Sharp, Evan Parker)
BUT sometimes think they "take it to far", Skronk-wise

See a pattern?
You may like Pepsi
I may like Coke
You may like Green Tea
I may prefer Black Coffee....

its all down to TASTES and OPTIONS

and Limiting options, for any reason, robs us BOTH of the magic that lives in exploration and discovery.

RAWK!
Cs


...and once again, Thank You Case!
ChicagoMedic  
22 Oct 2009 11:09 | Quote
Joined: 21 Jul 2009
United States
Karma: 7
carlsnow excellent post. This has a lot of info for me too, as I am in the same boat.

I dislike "shred" so much.
gx1327  
22 Oct 2009 12:39 | Quote
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
United States
Karma: 9
i started off with a blues variation (1 3b 4 5b 5 7b) and learned it up and down and am looking for the next place to go. i have most of the chords down, but i will look through some of this, too.
fender_bender  
22 Oct 2009 13:30 | Quote
Joined: 09 Oct 2009
United States
Karma: 5
@ carl
Excellent post!

Mici  
30 Oct 2009 13:01 | Quote
Joined: way back
Kosovo
Karma: 9
Ahh, it's posts like these that make me thank myself I joined the forum.
case211  
30 Oct 2009 14:00 | Quote
Joined: 26 Feb 2009
United States
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Karma: 24
@carl

your welcome! great post man
eaerth  
16 Sep 2013 07:21 | Quote
Joined: 16 Sep 2013
United States
Karma
Wow, I know "necromancing" is frowned upon by many a forum goer but I just wanted to say thank you to carlsnow. I was trying to figure out where to go next, I've been playing guitar for well over a decade. About a year ago I decided to start taking myself a little more seriously and learn some scales to go with my chords. Was not expecting this little thread here; Mici says, "...it's posts like these that make me thank myself I joined the forum." That's actually precisely why I just registered! I'm not very active but I do lurk and with people like carlsnow, it gives me faith in the guitar community that not everyone are all about the "masturbatory" soloing and actually care what shapes are coming off their fretboard. I couldn't agree more with everything that you said, I'm also really into John Zorn and Sun Ra.
Anyway, thanks so much for the delightful thread, I'm definitely going to take you up on that and check out the Onion [ionian - onion because they make you cry!] modes as well.
Cheers!



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