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squires

Instruments and Gear
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nater2  
12 Oct 2009 19:22 | Quote
Joined: 28 May 2009
United States
Karma: 4
are squires good? i've kinda made fun of them because there cheap but i haven't played one very much and i haven't played their tele's at all
JustJeff  
12 Oct 2009 19:25 | Quote
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They are bad. Save a few extra hundred dollars and get a low end Fender Telecaster/Strat
case211  
12 Oct 2009 19:51 | Quote
Joined: 26 Feb 2009
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That's a little bit biased...

Depends on the series that you get... a Bullet series is the cheapest that you can get, where as they do make some of the more higher quality stuff.

I own an affinity series strat that is in all, pretty good considering how much it costs. It plays nice after I did a setup on it(truss and action) and sounds really good.

I wouldn't knock any of the lower priced brands ever, because not everyone can afford some of the more ridiculous price tags of Fender and Gibson.
JoshJones  
12 Oct 2009 20:04 | Quote
Joined: 30 Sep 2009
United States
Karma: 3
i have a standard and i love it. The electronics are kinda cheap but the guitar itself, after being setup, will give any low end Fender a run for its money.

That being said, if you can afford it, make the reach for a MIM strat/tele.
JustJeff  
12 Oct 2009 22:40 | Quote
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United States
Lessons: 2
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So you buy a bad guitar, and put money into setting it up?

Fender > Squire always. Unless you put extra time and effort into the Squire, then it will be better than a Fender. In the end, you're better off getting the better quality guitar.
case211  
12 Oct 2009 23:06 | Quote
Joined: 26 Feb 2009
United States
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It took me about 20 minutes to intonate my squier for 10 gauge strings, and only 1/8 turn and 24 hours on the truss adjustment for it to play really quite well when compared to some of the American series Fenders.

Now Fenders are going to be better *most* of the time, because those anomalies with having a Fender that has a factory defect.

Not every guitar is going to be perfect for everybody right out of the box, so a personal set up is typically needed anyways.

Honestly, people can rag on Squier's but, then you'd have to do the same for Epiphone. And people will play on their epiphone for years.

Name doesn't denote everything about a product with guitar companies.
future_god_of_the_axe  
13 Oct 2009 00:57 | Quote
Joined: 29 Nov 2008
United States
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what it all comes down to is the sound. and ive heard some amazing squiers, but then theres squiers that sound horrible. same thing goes for fender too. AND... the same situation is present with epiphone and gibson. i would buy a guitar made out of plastic and play it on stage if it sounded decent. to be honest though, i have had better luck with fenders and gibsons in terms of sound. just go to guitar center, sam ash, or whatever and play as many guitars as possible until you find the one you like the most. youll be suprized at what you find.
JoshJones  
13 Oct 2009 07:39 | Quote
Joined: 30 Sep 2009
United States
Karma: 3
@JustJeff

Sure I do it all the time. I can make almost all Squiers better than the American's for much much cheaper. Any good tech could. The wood matters on the sustain, but I can counter the sustain with a good blocking job on the trem.

The only thing that the Fender "brand" has over the "Squier" brand is the paint job. That's the one thing I cannot replicate YET. But I've gotten close.

Oh and another thing, I recommend any guitarist to learn how to fix/setup their own guitar. Learn how the thing works, what changes do to your sound. It helps immensely in understanding differences in guitars.
nater2  
13 Oct 2009 07:50 | Quote
Joined: 28 May 2009
United States
Karma: 4
do you have to have a tool to see weather you need a truss rod adjustment? and also i have this guitar

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Ibanez-Artcore-AFS75T-Electric-Guitar?sku=519452

and the bridge totally comes off and moves around but i can't find any way to adjust the action.
case211  
13 Oct 2009 08:44 | Quote
Joined: 26 Feb 2009
United States
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Karma: 24
don't adjust truss solely for action

If you need to lower your string height do it at the bridge, but if your neck isn't bowed enough, then adjust truss. This is all on personal preference though, I like a higher action and my necks to be fairly bowed so there is almost 0 buzz anywhere on the fret board. This is my personal taste in setups, so mine may not work for you.

To see if a truss adjustment would help, look from the bridge down the strings toward the nut/headstock. The strings will be straight, but the neck should create the illusion that they are not. hope this makes sense, I don't know how to word it at the moment.
nater2  
13 Oct 2009 12:48 | Quote
Joined: 28 May 2009
United States
Karma: 4
yea, i know most of that but i can't find the little screws on my bridge to adjust the action. i've never seen another bridge like mine
raptorclaws  
13 Oct 2009 13:20 | Quote
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Canada
Karma: 1
There's a big difference in the circumstances of a 16 year old wanting a guitar and an adult with a decent income.

One has to admire how case211, JoshJones and others have squeezed the most out of their guitars and, more importantly, taken the initiative to learn how they work.

When case211 becomes a rock star he'll still be experimenting and setting up his own guitar...not scared to tweak an axe worth several thousand to get the sound he wants.

I'm a decent back yard mechanic who learned most as a teen on inexpensive clunkers. If I had been given a new BMW back then, today I'd probably be leary of even changing the oil on a car. A Squier is a good introductory guitar...plays well and can be experimented with.

JoshJones  
13 Oct 2009 14:19 | Quote
Joined: 30 Sep 2009
United States
Karma: 3
thanks raptorclaws!

I actually learned on my American tele, but I love my Squier to death. I can honestly say that I own an American, several Mexicans, and Squiers... that is how I can give an honest opinion about them. Hell I rotate my SRV Squier into my playing time regularly.

@nater2

You have a roller bridge, they are a very different kind of breed of dealing with. As much as I love hollow bodies they are such a pain to work on.
case211  
13 Oct 2009 17:00 | Quote
Joined: 26 Feb 2009
United States
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@raptorclaws

Thanks man! made me feel good :D
nater2  
13 Oct 2009 17:59 | Quote
Joined: 28 May 2009
United States
Karma: 4
i might have to get a used one and mess with
gx1327  
14 Oct 2009 12:16 | Quote
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
United States
Karma: 9
i have a squier affinity. i'm an adult with a decent income, but i can't justify buying a "nice" guitar until i'm good enough to know how to use it!

that being said, i don't dislike the squier, not one bit. sure i would love to have a fender strat or tele, but i don't really notice anything "bad" about it. it does its job.

on a side note, i DID adjust the truss rod simply to raise the action of the strings. there was too much buzzing when fretting down the strings, even when playing open chords i noticed buzzing. the guy at guitar center said he wouldn't change a thing about it, but i didn't like it so i did it myself! my exact thoughts were "eh, it's a $200 guitar. what's the worst i can do?"

i like the way my guitar plays now a lot more. i suppose it would have been smarter to raise the action at the bridge (now that i read you can do that i'm sure i can figure out how), but i don't really dislike anything about the way the guitar plays so no big deal.

alllllllllll that being said, is anyone else dissatisfied with the lack of instructions that come with the guitar? i mean i have a lot of hobbies and i buy a lot of expensive toys --- for instance, camera gear. every camera body and every lens comes with an instruction manual that tells you what everything is and how it works. i was shocked when i opened up this guitar and found absolutely nothing but an allen wrench and a pair of springs. you would think there would be a step-by-step guide to setting up the guitar. even if it's not encouraged, it should still be included!
case211  
14 Oct 2009 12:24 | Quote
Joined: 26 Feb 2009
United States
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@gx1327

I don't remember what mine came with(its been 6 years) but I do remember going WTF? at the extra springs and allen wrench... so I threw them into the box and never looked at them again!

If your action is making buzz everywhere, then raising it would help, but it seems like you did the trick. Plus if you don't like how it played after the truss adjustment, you can always go back to square one, just don't over turn it, that's when you hear all the stories of people messing up their brand new necks.
Nightmare  
14 Oct 2009 15:55 | Quote
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Lebanon
Karma: 6
case211 says:
I own an affinity series strat that is in all, pretty good considering how much it costs. It plays nice after I did a setup on it(truss and action) and sounds really good.


I have the same as yours, but how did u setup the action and truss by yourself? I tried that and I ended up breaking my A strings more than once, which made me pay $50 for changing strings. Then I decided to take it to a pro to fix it and do some major setups and I paid $20, but ever since I did that I feel like he didn't fix it well and the sound used to be better. the strat must be a low action only? plus I don't think he adjusted the truss.
case211  
14 Oct 2009 23:25 | Quote
Joined: 26 Feb 2009
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hey man,

well i played football my Freshman year so i didn't have a lot of time to play guitar from june-november(we moved during the summer) so strings were not in tune and the neck decided to become a little too straight(which is why I adjusted the truss 2 weeks ago). i didn't know anything about guitars on the mechanical/technical side until this last year.

So I grabbed my computer read up on how to do the truss adjustments, and then went to work. All it needed was about 24 hours, an allen wrench of the appropriate size, and a ruler.
I basically read everything on this page and went to work feeling pretty confident. And don't worry, just because this is pointed at Ibanez guitars, it will work pretty much the same give or take a few little size differences in the truss.
http://www.ibanezrules.com/tech/setup/truss.htm

also check out this for some info on your action. Action height is personal, but this kind of helped me out when used in conjuction with the truss adjustment.

Be sure to let your guitar sit for a few(5 hours maybe) hours before re measuring the relief, it took my guitar about 24 hours for it to be fully adjusted to where i set it at.

since i did it, it sounds better and plays better than ever.
Good luck!
Evan  
15 Oct 2009 02:42 | Quote
Joined: 15 Oct 2009
United States
Karma: 2
Amp > Guitar.

Seriously, a good amp can make a crap guitar sound, well, good.
gx1327  
15 Oct 2009 07:36 | Quote
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
United States
Karma: 9
HAHA really it took you 24 hours of measuring and adjusting to adjust the truss rod??? whoops.... i just sort of started turning the allen key until it looked and felt good, re tuned, and went to town!

but like i said i just adjusted the truss to how it FEELS, i didn't measure anything on it. i think i gave it maybe 30-45 degrees rotation (the key that is)? or maybe i'm just pulling that number out of my rear...
JoshJones  
15 Oct 2009 09:51 | Quote
Joined: 30 Sep 2009
United States
Karma: 3
@nightmare

take your guitar in playing position and look down the neck from the headstock. You will either see it as perfectly straight or with a slight bow. Every guitar is different and I'd have to play it to tell you what you want so you'll have to mess with that.

Another way to tell on your neck is to take a straight edge and lay it flat on the guitar. It should touch every fret if its straight.

As for being a low action guitar, not true. A proper luthier can set it up to however you want. I always ask people what they want. Check your pickup heights because the truss rod won't affect your sound any, but the pickup heights are crucial
case211  
15 Oct 2009 13:52 | Quote
Joined: 26 Feb 2009
United States
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@gx

yeah, your supposed to let them sit for awhile before they are done morphing(lack of a better term). I don't think that it matters if you play on it, but, i read that if you leave it alone for around 4-6 hours the changes will be starting to show. And it usually takes another day to completely change to what you set it at.
gx1327  
16 Oct 2009 09:24 | Quote
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
United States
Karma: 9
that makes sense. when i first got the guitar it stayed in tune like a champ, after adjusting the truss it went out of tune (obviously), and i kept having to retune it fairly often i'd say a couple of days later it stayed in tune fine.
case211  
16 Oct 2009 09:34 | Quote
Joined: 26 Feb 2009
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yeah, that's what happens. I actually swapped out necks on my Ibanez and I haven't seen any changes from the truss adjustment that i made... which is making me mad because the intonation is off(again), and I don't like doing intonations on Floyd Rose trems.
Nightmare  
16 Oct 2009 17:00 | Quote
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Lebanon
Karma: 6
'case the link seems helpful I read only the "introduction" cause im not gonna fix it now and the font is kinda make ur eyes hurt and im feelin sleepy. LoL I never thought it really needs 24hours.


JoshJones says:
take your guitar in playing position and look down the neck from the headstock. You will either see it as perfectly straight or with a slight bow.

aw I know that, but I'm afraid to touch it, cause a lot of people say give it to some pro and you don;t touch the stuss cause its really bad idea for the neck. while for the pickups, ya thats true, you reminded my the guy changed my pickups high I gotta adjust them again X|. So can I really use a high action on a squier strat? cause last time I raised the saddle, I got a constantly braking a strings!


Another thing for who ever wanna get a Squier Strat, you need to get a pedal, 'cause the amp distortion will SUCK!
JoshJones  
16 Oct 2009 19:59 | Quote
Joined: 30 Sep 2009
United States
Karma: 3
Aww that is not true at all. All it takes is a little finesse. Slight changes in the rod can give big changes in the neck, as long as you don't do full turns and stick to slight adjustments you'll be fine.

Sure you can use high action on any guitar. My Squier has incredibly high action, as I set it up for slide. You can buy a graphite paste/lube to put on your saddles to help prevent string breaking. I usually just take a .7mm lead and grind it up and rub it on my saddles and nut. Another way is to put some tubing where the string touches the saddle. (thats a secret from Stevie Ray's tech)
Nightmare  
27 Oct 2009 05:58 | Quote
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Lebanon
Karma: 6
Sorry it took me long to reply. tubing is a good idea but from where am i gonna get the tubing?
Evan  
27 Oct 2009 06:52 | Quote
Joined: 15 Oct 2009
United States
Karma: 2
To be honest, some squires aren't that bad. The affinity series is utter crap.
case211  
27 Oct 2009 07:03 | Quote
Joined: 26 Feb 2009
United States
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@evan

Actually, for the money, they are hailed as better than most guitars that are new for under the $200 price tag. The higher end squiers like the vintage modern are pretty sweet but honestly, I would buy an actual Fender for that price.
BodomBeachTerror  
27 Oct 2009 11:09 | Quote
Joined: 27 May 2008
Canada
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Karma: 25
yea ive heard the Vintage Modified and Classic Vibe squires kick the crap out of some fenders
Evan  
27 Oct 2009 15:06 | Quote
Joined: 15 Oct 2009
United States
Karma: 2
Yeah, I'd rather go with a Fender. Though, Squire does have a pretty cool John 5 Telecaster.
carlsnow  
27 Oct 2009 15:34 | Quote
Joined: 29 Apr 2009
United States
Lessons: 2
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JoshJones says:
I can make almost all Squiers better than the American's for much much cheaper. Any good tech could. The wood matters on the sustain, but I can counter the sustain with a good blocking job on the trem.


I can , first hand, vouch for Josh's above statement.

--

lemme add...

Squires are like any other Plank, some suck, some are dubious, and some are great (since the 90's I've favored "nafta-casters" or the more 'politically (hurl) correct' MIM's (Made In Mexico)to their 'American' sisters.
Leo (Fender) made one of the best and most hilarious statements re: his product-line(s) when he came right out and told the truth about the whole 'MIM' Vs 'USA' debate fight:
"i dont know what the big deal is..... These (Tele's Strats, etc) have been 'made by Mexicans, proudly, for YEARS, they just did it in California" LOL!

Leo is right. i JUST bought a "Mexican" Tele over a 'Made in America" Tele. The "MIM" had a much better neck. much much better.

and on a funny (to me) note:
I have actually watched folks purchase a 'US' Strat over a 'Mexican' Strat because they were motivated by a perverted sense of nationalism brought on by acute bigotry ... go figure.

other than that...

RAWK!
Cs



JoshJones  
27 Oct 2009 15:39 | Quote
Joined: 30 Sep 2009
United States
Karma: 3
Carl's got first hand experience with two of my trem blocking jobs :)

@nightmare,

I take insulated wire, and take my knife and split the wire coating off of it. I then take the coating and place it around my strings where they touch the saddle.

Here's an example of the type of wire coating I use.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2049745
JoshJones  
27 Oct 2009 15:40 | Quote
Joined: 30 Sep 2009
United States
Karma: 3
The Classic Vibe tele is an amazing guitar, in fact if I talk myself outta this Gretsch I've been looking at, its gonna be my next guitar. The '52 Tele sound is incredible.
case211  
27 Oct 2009 22:10 | Quote
Joined: 26 Feb 2009
United States
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Karma: 24
also just because we are on the subject of trem blocking... Josh how did you do it, I did mine but I'm just not happy with it. I have this wierd curve in my trem block that doesn't all just a straight cut to fill the back end of it evenly so I wasn't able to get it cut right.
Do you have any tips and tricks for it? and also does the type of wood used make a lot of difference?

Thanks in advance
JoshJones  
27 Oct 2009 23:04 | Quote
Joined: 30 Sep 2009
United States
Karma: 3
It takes some practice and woodworking. You will not have a rectangle shape block of wood for this project. Below are some steps that I'd recommend, I'd give you measurements but I've found that they change fairly drastically from guitar to guitar.

1.) Start with a rectangle block
2.) Take off your strings (simple I know but it can be forgotten.
3.) Lay the trem flat against the body, I typically insert 5 springs at this point to make sure the trem is all the way flat.
4.) Measure your gap at it's widest point, this should be your base size of your rectangle block.
5.) Slowly start cutting away at the left most corner and ease the block into the cavity. This is a lengthy process and I'm a perfectionist so I was making very small cuts and ended up sanding until a super snug fit.

Your block should end up similar to this, picture in 3D going into the page:

_
/ |
---

If its not clear, I can go into much more detail with more specific questions.

As for wood:

Guitar body wood is typically your best choice. You need a strong wood that has good sound properties. Mahogany, rosewood, ebony, maple, etc. It does make a difference due to density, vibration, sonic properties, but to the lay person it really doesn't. I could go into equations and very specific details but its not really necessary.

I personally use ebony. I find it gives the best sustain out of all the others. I know some other techs that love maple so pending monetary issues play around. I've even heard of people using aluminum but I wouldn't recommend it.
JoshJones  
27 Oct 2009 23:09 | Quote
Joined: 30 Sep 2009
United States
Karma: 3
wow my picture came out awful... drawing something in paint this time:
league  
28 Oct 2009 04:09 | Quote
Joined: way back
United States
Lessons: 2
Karma: 10
carlsnow says:
"i dont know what the big deal is..... These (Tele's Strats, etc) have been 'made by Mexicans, proudly, for YEARS, they just did it in California" LOL!


ahahha fekken A man thats so true ive visited the fender factory in Corona,CA and I,ve seen videos of the Mexican factory the process is a bit different but in the end Mexican Strats and Teles are probably (IMO) the best deal in the Fender line.

BTW (lol i got off topic) but ive owned a Squier Strat for over 4 years and i still love it. The other day i went to guitar center and tried out an American Standard Strat and It almost sounded the same and the fret wire ends were not as clean cut as the Squiers.

but i give you this advice: BUY A USED AMERICAN OR MEXICAN FENDER STRAT FOR ABOUT $200 or you can get a used Squier at a knowledgeable pawn broker for about $100 bucks.
case211  
28 Oct 2009 05:59 | Quote
Joined: 26 Feb 2009
United States
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Karma: 24
@josh

thanks man, I'll try doing that today.
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