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Scale 'keys' puzzling

Music Theory
raptorclaws  
17 Sep 2009 21:38 | Quote
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Canada
Karma: 1
F Japanese 1,2,3,4,#4,5,6,7
G Bebop minor 1,2,b3,3,4,5,6,b7
C Bebop dom 1,2,3,4,5,6,b7,7

Hi,

I'm a bit lost.
I was doing a melody in single notes on the guitar. I just chose at random the song 'O Holy Night'. I didn't want to start with a scale but rather to practice 'by ear'(which is a struggle!)

I wrote down the notes when I was satisfied with the single note melody. It starts on an A and ends on an F...the notes used are A, A#,C,D,E,F,G

A scale of these notes wasn't familiar so I put the notes in the 'reverse guitar scale finder' and it found the three scales listed at the top of this page.

The scales (at top) start with F,G,C. The F might makes sense because the melody ends in an 'F' but why 'G' or 'C'?

thanks

case211  
17 Sep 2009 22:03 | Quote
Joined: 26 Feb 2009
United States
Lessons: 2
Licks: 6
Karma: 24
If you think about it this way, the key of C major has a relative minor of A (minor). The modes within that could be used as the root note, i.e. B Diminished, D Dorian(think JD on that one!), or F lydian, and the few others within that key. So in short what I'm trying to say is that the reason it says C Bepop Dominant is because those notes start on C and progress in that order, same with F japanese and the other.
Hope this helps, and hopefully someone else can clarify it further.
RA  
17 Sep 2009 23:45 | Quote
Joined: 24 Sep 2008
United States
Karma: 16
well, the scale finder is a "robot" that is why.
also when you put the info into it is not thinking about the order(nor should it) it is just getting the input and compares it do the data base and splats out the info at you. now is the data base complete no of course not it is just not possible the list would go on for ever(not really. figure out all the combos of 12 and that going to be a hell of alot). so it's not going to give you a scale that starts on A(doesn't care about order) and it's not going to give you a scale with A as the tonic(data base doesn't have one)

now on to the scales it gave you. the "robot"(need better name) doesn't do "theory" it relies on you to know it. There is more then a good chance your playing a 7-tone scale(heptatonic, from now on) and the added tone is just a accidental(be it a passing tone, you ears like the dissonance, whatever). so find the chords and get the key and you will have your scale.
The Japanese scale i know nothing about(and really neither should you to be quite honest, learning random scales is really quite silly), but the be-bop scales are like the blues scales. there really not scales per say but a scale with a added common "outside" note that likes to be played with in the given style(blues scale has a b5 in it, the so called blue note). so for instance those two be-bop scales are played because in jazz dominate chords are used a lot and undiatonically(like the blues, because jazz is based of blues) so when you have a dominate chord before another dominate chord a fourth above (C7,F7). they "add up" up to the be-bop scales(minor then dominate respectively). there used to follow with the progression, but as always that far from there only use. but that is base idea for them any way.

but as i have said before admin, you have the best tools on the web by far and is no way this a put down i love your work, but hopefully you can also again robots are robots and music is a human element.

so the point is when using your ear just use your ear, when going to study with your brain find the key.(i hope that makes sense and comes out right).

edit- that didn't come out right I'm bad with words just find the key when analyzing i guess is what I'm trying to say
raptorclaws  
18 Sep 2009 11:13 | Quote
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Canada
Karma: 1
Thanks for the above inputs. I need to pay more attention to relative minors, modes or variations of them.

It's interesting how my ear went off in a particular direction and not another. I suppose that's the creative part (or poor hearing).

Understanding theory is both a blessing and stifling. So many music celebrities put out great tunes in their early years and then mediocrity and 'blahness' once they 'knew what they were doing' and had unlimited resources to work with.
case211  
18 Sep 2009 16:45 | Quote
Joined: 26 Feb 2009
United States
Lessons: 2
Licks: 6
Karma: 24
your definitely right about the hearing part, if you like something do it! I usually try to keep the leads that I do within a few things:
1. keep it within the respective key
2. add chromatics once in a while, give a different feel
3. use some of my own licks to keep it with my play style
4. keep it spontaneous. I don't ever actually tab out my leads, I let the music and my ears guide me. I don't like to play the same thing over and over an over, I usually add a little spice here or there.

and a tip on understanding modes, relative minors, and such, try to make a connection with something else or try to see a pattern in the notes, another good one is to learn a scale up one string at a time. Just say the notes aloud while you play them up the g string or whatever string your on. Once you get the pattern down and the positions, it will all flow much easier. Also just to help out a bit with modes; C major has the exact same notes as B Locrian, just your root note changes, though you use the same notes within the scale, but different starting(root) note.

I'll stop blabbing now :D
Case

Also, I agree with what you said about some musicians, they sometimes let theory get the best of their personality and lose their touch...sometimes.
raptorclaws  
18 Sep 2009 22:03 | Quote
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Canada
Karma: 1
Case: Thanks for the input:

I understand your #4 above. We all have those creative moments that just 'spring out' of us. I was listening to Eric Clapton being interviewed. He stated that he found it difficult to sit to learn someone else's music and couldn't understand how anyone could learn his because it just pops out and he can't explain what he's doing. We shake our head at the intricacy of someone else's creativity...it was easy for them...but takes us hours to learn. But we all naturally do our own creative pieces that are just as intricate. The fingers 'just begin to move'.


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