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Slides and notes in scale

Music Theory
raptorclaws  
31 Aug 2009 16:18 | Quote
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Canada
Karma: 1
I don't have a 'good ear'. I suppose if something sounds ok it is fine but it can difficult to judge on one's own.

I am making up a little Spanish piece using the Phrygian mode in E. Perhaps, however, this applies to most slides.

When sliding between two notes in a scale (or mode) and sliding through a note not on the scale does the non-scale note sound discordant or is it usually ok? For example on the high E string in the E Phrygian mode is it ok to slide from the the G (in the mode) through the G# (not in the mode) to the A (in the mode). Or is it better to hammer on the A after playing the G?

I don't want to further complicate things and this question might not make a lot of sense but are there certain positions of non-scale notes between the notes of a scale which are better to slide through than others?...or others better to avoid by skipping and hammering on the next scale note? I know that it depends on the effect to be achieved but do the notes themselves influence the technique used?

thanks.
BodomBeachTerror  
31 Aug 2009 17:23 | Quote
Joined: 27 May 2008
Canada
Lessons: 2
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Karma: 25
yes you may, you can slide all the way up to C or E if you please
JazzMaverick  
31 Aug 2009 18:12 | Quote
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
United Kingdom
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Moderator
Well, you can venture out of the modes as many times as you want, just as long as you emphesize that it's in the phrygian mode. So, you keep track of the beat and let's say, for now, you always bring the melody back to the mode on the last beat of that particular bar. It really helps to know your theory here.
RA  
31 Aug 2009 23:38 | Quote
Joined: 24 Sep 2008
United States
Karma: 16
well to start for Spanish bit your going to what to put in A harmonic minor(in reality E Phrygian Dominate/Spanish gypsy scale, it's a mode of harmonic minor i just want to be more "theory strict" and not go give ten thousand names for one scale). but you may be saying "Tom i don't know all these fancy scales and I'm not ready" and i say "bull***, do you think Paco de Lucia even knows one scale NO". Granted Paco has excellent ears(we help our self's by leaning theory but it is no real replacement and ear training should still be mandatory), played since he was 9, comes from a deep musical family, and no offense none of us will ever be like him, but that's not the point. seeing that you all ready know you major scale mode Phrygian all you need to do is change one note, yes just one note, to enter the realm of this scale. In E all you got to do is change G to G#. Just like in the blues, flamenco likes to mess with the 3rd intervals by bouncing in and out of the 3rd tones(difference between them is in the scales used and the blues messes with tritones and flamenco 7ths). So to help you in your implementing this scale just play it on the one string, high E, just using the Phrygian Dominate(change G to G#) to get a feel for it(I'm guessing you already have a feel for plain Phrygian). Once you get a feel for Phrygain Dominate(Spanish Gypsy to tell again) start putting in Phrygain(in reality just messing with your 3rds or "G"s). then after that go nuts all over the neck.

PS you may be thinking about the 7ths while don't worry to much about them the real "flavor note" in flamenco is to get that Augmented tone Between the b2 and the 3rd or F and G#. just playing that interval with an E will get you gong.


raptorclaws says:
When sliding between two notes in a scale (or mode) and sliding through a note not on the scale does the non-scale note sound discordant or is it usually ok? For example on the high E string in the E Phrygian mode is it ok to slide from the the G (in the mode) through the G# (not in the mode) to the A (in the mode).


simple answer. as long as you start on a "scale tone" and end on a scale tone there will be no dissonance. Sure there's theory on passing notes yada yada yada, but for now, who cares Start on a note end on a note in the scale and your golden, just don't hold/let ring anything "outside".


raptorclaws says:
I don't want to further complicate things and this question might not make a lot of sense but are there certain positions of non-scale notes between the notes of a scale which are better to slide through than others?...or others better to avoid by skipping and hammering on the next scale note?


one, it makes perfect sense don't worry, and now your getting into more theory theory and it matters a lot but it changes for each style of music. I really can't help you here (topic is to large), the best you can do is experiment. I know you throw down your ears alot but it doesn't matter how theory you can cram into your brain, you still have to experiment with sounds your self. Music is in the end just about listening, just like dance is about movement, and art about seeing. So just play and listen to your self and others. But for flamenco sliding from F to G# is nice.
Try E on the "B String" to F then slide to G# then fret back E or
"B string" ---5-6/9--9--6--5 then bonce between E and F or 5 and 6 and end on E.
RA  
1 Sep 2009 00:11 | Quote
Joined: 24 Sep 2008
United States
Karma: 16
--edit (can't quote on a edit post)

raptorclaws says:
I know that it depends on the effect to be achieved but do the notes themselves influence the technique used?


I'm sorry i missed that. and the answer is yes, but the questions you asking with that paragraph are hard to answers, because it varies from style to style and not just music styles like the blues, flamenco, and such but more importantly is varies from player to player in the same type of genre, hell even Sub-genre. A players thing maybe sliding into that interval them a hammer on to that. I know skip James had a good one but it is slipping me right now.
raptorclaws  
1 Sep 2009 00:31 | Quote
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Canada
Karma: 1
Thanks all for taking time to answer my post. Yes, must develop my ear and then trust it. Slides...just go for it!

It is the understatement of the year to say that changing the G to G# makes a difference. Quite the revelation how one half step can change the ambiance of a piece. Hard to put the guitar down. That E,F to G# is sounding good on various permutations around the neck.

Thanks to all for the heads up on there being more theory involved. It's a lot more motivating to research and tackle the theory when there are tangible improvements in playing.


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