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need cab help

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EMB5490  
23 Jul 2009 09:35 | Quote
Joined: 10 Feb 2008
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so i have a jmp vintage, blew my speakers. the were able to hold 180 watts. my amp is 100 watts. my tech says i need 3 or 4 times the m power to be safe. so tell me any of u tht know, i this true?
keniemn  
23 Jul 2009 12:24 | Quote
Joined: 09 Apr 2008
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it is better to have more handeling then acual power,that way your not popin cones and burning voice coils you also get a more clear tone
carlsnow  
23 Jul 2009 12:26 | Quote
Joined: 29 Apr 2009
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@EMB5490
(to the question)kinda ...but thats stretching it a bit to close for me.

why the hell does he want ya to play a Cab that size? you (not being snarky at all btw) doing outdoor theater or 1,000+ capacity capacity rooms?
or is he , like my old tech, making up for load-ins, beer, duct-tape and unstable pwr-outs(and me) by trying to figure out what to ** about/offer his grand opinion of..., cause i could see that , lol !

i dont use anyone anymore, i figure if i can't still lift my gear and keep it in tune by now, i dont need one




..........................................until load-out.
LOL



RAWK!
Cs
EMB5490  
23 Jul 2009 12:52 | Quote
Joined: 10 Feb 2008
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well hes not my tech, but hes kinda my tech lol. what i mean is i dont gig with him but anything tht needs anything goes to him. im playing small clubs, HOWEVER, i crank my amp weekly and now in the summer daily.

my question is for those who do crank their amps (tube) ik even though they say 100, ive heard they can peak at higher when it distorts. anway i heard that to be safe u need to have more then the power of your amp, so the cones dont die like mine did.

nah the tech i use is really good. he builds his own amps and stuff from scratch and i trust him fully, however ive been reading about these 1960ax cabs, 100 watt saying they can hold a 100 watt amp like mine, but wouldnt it blow???
telecrater  
23 Jul 2009 15:18 | Quote
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
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I was always told it's best to push 100 watts through a 50 watt speaker then the other way around. Is that wrong carl?

get a couple of el cheapo' Jensen 50 watt speakers and try that out they are pretty cheap and see what happens if i'm wrong you not out the price of a couple of vintage celesitons

also look into impediance.. if you running your amp setup for 2 peakers you cannot just plug into 4 speaker and expect it to work.
Phip  
23 Jul 2009 15:34 | Quote
Joined: 23 Dec 2007
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Hey little buckaroo I see you are still blowing up your gear on a regular basis. Good for you! We techs love you guys! haha
ok, it really comes down to matching your amp and cab.
So think about it......you have a 100W amp. you def don't want to undermatch the cab. you'll blow those speakers into the next diminsion when you crank it up!
On the other hand if you over match (300W, 400w) then it won't respond to the subtle stuff expecially if you are not cranking it. Understand. if you turn down the amp (who knows maybe someday you will) the amp won't be able to push those bad *ss cones. (not enough drive). So you def don't want to over match. The problem is that when you crank the 100W amp into 100W cab continuously you are pushing those speakers to their max capacity and they WILL come apart after a while. So.....long story short....increase the wattage of those speakers to 200W.
It really comes down to matching your gear to your style of playing. in your case you tend to crank it more than not. If you were playing James Taylor or something like that you wouldn't need to up your wattage. But....It is what it is.....
Okee dokee?
Phip
EMB5490  
23 Jul 2009 15:56 | Quote
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lol. i was expecting that phip :)

thanks a lot phip, that was acctually really helpful.

EMB5490  
23 Jul 2009 16:08 | Quote
Joined: 10 Feb 2008
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but i had 2 85 watt speakers, (170w) and it blew. is my marshall just a beast?
case211  
23 Jul 2009 16:52 | Quote
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100 Watts is ear deafening...and yes your Marshall would be considered in the beastly category:)
EMB5490  
23 Jul 2009 19:17 | Quote
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lol yh 100 watts is deafening :) especially on a vintage hot roded jmp. anywayyyy after a long grueling trip to the amp store, first the guys that work there acctually pay 0 attention to kids. so ****ing annoying. so i start to play, they acctually get interested...then act like duchbags to me, talking down to as a kid, assuming a know ****ing nothing. then my mom ust makes it 10000 times worse by getting involved without knowing anything. ANYWAY

i found a cheap cab. has anyone heard of a marshall 1982 jcm800 cab? its pretty cheap...anyone heard anything

also could speakers just die just beacuse theyr old? just curious
EMB5490  
23 Jul 2009 20:36 | Quote
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also i heard lower wattage speakers sound better?
RA  
23 Jul 2009 21:46 | Quote
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first, unless they had space magnets back then, to the best of my knowledge a Speaker is a speaker there is no point in buying an old one because yes it will just die(depending on earlier owners of course). and Phip hit the nail on the head in terms of your wattage question (like always with these tech questions) so read it again and if you need more just ask him. i would basically just be restating what he said anyway and he like a walking book on this stuff anyhow.

ya and never bring your parents if they don't have a clue just makes it so much worse then you get into a fight been there but I'm done with it finally.

also as carl said they guy your going to is bull*ing you
EMB5490  
23 Jul 2009 22:08 | Quote
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yeh phip is very helpful

yeh the only reason i told my mom about it was i needed her to take the money outta my band account. it seems in free america a minor isnt allowed to take money out of their own bank account.

really? hes an amazing tech and has no reason to bs me. maybe i dont have a blown speaker??

my speakers have magnets and both magnets work. it seems like sound is coming from both speakers although i cant really tell.

what got me to bring it in was this overtone of a octave that i was getting. he said it was a commen thing with hot roded jmps that i blew my speaker and for hot roded jmps you need 300-400 watts.

this guy i use is very very bright, trust him fully, he builds his own amps basicly from broken ones.
EMB5490  
23 Jul 2009 22:35 | Quote
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i believe he called what i had tone cry.

now that i remember it was tone/cone. i couldnt really make out which one. but anyway he hooked it up into his cabinet and my amp on 4 and it reuduced the cone/tone cry, but i could still hear it. faint but there. he has ear problems and probably didnt hear it as it blended in and was soft, but is it any chance my amp is doing it, im gona post a vid of it soon, maybe u guys know wut i mean, but its an octave lower and its just horrible. anyway it shouldnt happen and is. personally if i can just get rid of the cone cry id be happy. idc if i get a 1000 watt cab just as its gone. however if i can get rid of it with a less wattage cab id be nice :)

best way to try it is ill bring my amp over to the store and try it on a new cab. thats truthfully the ONLY way i guess. now i just gotta go to a store thatll let me crank it...

WAIT! my friend has a spider 3 solid state cab, if i hook my amp into tht for a few minutes to see would it ruin my amp? his cab is completly new and holds 300watts of power.
Phip  
24 Jul 2009 07:24 | Quote
Joined: 23 Dec 2007
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EMB5490 says:
is it any chance my amp is doing it


Yup there is a chance.
Take your amp to your friend's house and plug into his 300W cab. (be sure that his input resistance is the same as your amp output resistance (ie: 8 ohms etc). You really don't want a mismatch. If the resistance is the same give it a try.
Phip
If you still have the overtone/octave problem then you prob have a leaky output tube in your amp. you can solve that problem by changing tubes one at a time until the prob goes away. (you really should have a spare set of tubes if you can afford it)
Those EL34 tubes sometimes need to be changed as pairs since they work in a push/pull configuration. I need to look at your amp diagram to tell. I have it here on my comp but gotta get to work. will check later.
Phip  
24 Jul 2009 07:31 | Quote
Joined: 23 Dec 2007
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Oh and Elliott, if you find a tech that you trust; keep him until he gives you some reason not to trust him. There are a crap load of techs out there that don't have a clue or are just plain greedy, and a very few really genius guys. Hang onto this guy unless you find out he's messin' with ya. And occassionally if he makes a mistake, cut him a break and give him a chance to make things right. Building a good relationship with someone who knows what he/she is doing is a valuable connection to have.
Phip
EMB5490  
24 Jul 2009 08:11 | Quote
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im gona do that phip, i mean i trust my tech fully but he has that type of personality tht he knows hes right the second he says it. whatever i say or whatever anyone else says is wrong until he proves right. however hes insanly talented at building amps, and knows what hes talking about.

im gona go over to my friends house today and try that. eventually i may get an attenuator... but no money now.
EMB5490  
24 Jul 2009 08:13 | Quote
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i acctually just changed my tubes (my tech did) so i think there good. ive never had a "bias" done whatever that means. however lets say i do get that overtone at his house, im recording it and bringing it to him to show.
carlsnow  
24 Jul 2009 13:36 | Quote
Joined: 29 Apr 2009
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@Phip
you sound suspiciously like a tech....LOL!


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