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Insomnia

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JazzMaverick  
18 Jun 2009 20:59 | Quote
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Sort of music related, since it's very limiting but it's been bugging me for ages...

Does/ has anyone else ever had it? I pretty much exhaust myself by jogging every day yet when I lay down I can't sleep. I'm becoming a zombie!

Insomnia = slow = less production whilst practicing guitar = very uncool!

Advice is needed!!!!
JustJeff  
18 Jun 2009 21:08 | Quote
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I always find following the same procedure before you go to bed every day is very important. If everyday just before you go to bed, you go get a glass of water and play guitar for 20 minutes... your body will know when this happens that it needs to be tired so that you can go to bed.

Psychologically, it really does work... as long as you continually go to bed at about the same time every day.

Otherwise, sleeping pills >.
JazzMaverick  
18 Jun 2009 21:16 | Quote
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I'm not a fan of sleeping pills, and my sleeping pattern is pretty random. When I know I have a chance of sleep, I drop what I'm doing and dive into wonderland.

I had contemplated it being the frame of mind... but really I don't mentally exhaust myself anymore. Used to with music, but I know what I'm doing and know what I need to do.

Maybe I should learn algebra...
Phip  
18 Jun 2009 21:55 | Quote
Joined: 23 Dec 2007
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i have had spells on insomnia but never for extended periods. I don't have a solution for you but i wish I did. sleep deprivation isn't heathy. I'll google it and see if i can come up with some practical help.
some people think ear plugs help, others say a little "white noise" helps too.
I usually turn on the TV low and tune to a good David Attenborough documentary, something to block my restless thoughts. Do you have any chronic pain that might be keeping you up (back pain)?
take a look at this site
http://www.well.com/~mick/insomnia/
42 Simple Tips
to Help You Get to Sleep
I hope something there will help you Jazzy, you need a good nights rest!
Phip
EMB5490  
18 Jun 2009 22:12 | Quote
Joined: 10 Feb 2008
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well i am glad that you brought this up, idk if the uk has it, but go to your local drug store. buy melatonin. its basicly what kids (like me) produce and the reason why we fall alseep, s you get older it stops being produced (phip :) anyway from what i know about you jazz you are fairly young, or at least youthful looking :) anyway, you could try melatonin. it will knock you out and is completely natural because as i said, your body produces it. it will regulate your sleeping patterens also, take it at night. also 5 htp, or l tryptophin could help, i take them, it basicly calms you down, makes you a bit tired at night, produces seratonin in the brain, also natural, both are very healthy and work. you gotta give it time though you cant give up after a week when u may still have the same patterns. also melatonin is one of the best, immune boosting. it basicly puts you to sleep, regulates your sleeping pattern and is an immune booster, if you dont believe a reliable 15 year old look it up do your reaserch. also if you have anxiety or under stress, take l tryptophin, and l theanin.

k now your like how does this 15 year old know so much about awsome stuff thatll definalty help me???

well heres the story

my grandmother is paranoid (by black sabbath lol) she really is. its a really long sotry in my family but ill simplify it. basicly all these drugs on the market and stuff, my grandmother reserched back in the 80s and found how bad they are for you. basicly name something my grandmother knows about it, reserched it and i can tell u about it. although her, hersel is fine, my mom isnt. my mom had celiacs, a type of auto ammune disease, she cant eat wheat. but it sounds stupid right? no. she had it for 25+ years and has devolped major life threatening permenit conditions, first of all oif she has wheat, a molecule, the smallest amount you can possibly imagine, her immune system attacks her body, and she is basicly paralyzed to her bed for a month and wont recover for 3 or 4 months, these 3 or 4 months she can barley sleep, eat, walk, stay awake, she is in constant pain with it. basicly it attacks her:

stomach (she take acid pill to digest food because her immune system distoryed her stoumache acid)
thyroid gland, she takes thyroid pills
reproductive gland
villi in intestine, another thing is before last year she wasnt abole to absorb food, so shed eat basicly and shed be hungary, basicly you eat absorb nutrients, and vitamins and everything she absorbed nothing, one reason why she was so weak. i could go on theres sooo much more.

o yeh on top of that. she had cancer. yep cancer. so yeh.


ANYWAYYYY she takes hundreds of pills and amoung those she has the ones i mentioned, anyway try them check them out, they work they hlpe, natural, healthy, should make you feel better.

o btw sleep deprivation is THE WORST THING. evolution wouldnt have required sleep if it wasnt necessary. even sleeping pills are better then not sleeping. and melatonin is just 1000x better even if you can sleep, however dont take it as a kid, like my age, i still produce it and taking it at my age could stop the melatonin my brain is naturally making.
EMB5490  
18 Jun 2009 22:24 | Quote
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i really hope that helps, insalmnia is the worst.

btw normal dose for adults is 5mg.
RA  
18 Jun 2009 23:20 | Quote
Joined: 24 Sep 2008
United States
Karma: 16
you do know that almost all drugs contain something you body naturally produces. examples would be cocaine based drugs, opiates, and X to name a few. and the main problem with these drugs, besides the one that are chemically addictive, is that the brain stops producing theses chem due too a Constant outside source. that why X abusers can never be physically happy again and heroin users are chronically depressed and most feel they need substitutes just to survive the day. so the argument that your body naturally produces it is quite dull. just think about it if you body didn't use the chem or like chems it wouldn't react to it.

@jazz I'm backing Jeff 100% (not so much on procedure but on the time) you body has a neutral clock and yours might be out of whack.
telecrater  
18 Jun 2009 23:32 | Quote
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
United States
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I had it for a long time, 6 months or more when i'd be lucky to get 4 hours of sleep. My problem was i could not clear my head. i would lay down and start thinking and thinking.

some of the things that helped was not to get on the computer before bed, watch tv or do something boring.

eat something, not good for the waistline but something in the gut can help settle you. warm milk sometimes works for people.

Read before bed, just don't get too involved, otherwise you will be up all night. A nice book on programing PHP or how to use Unix may be just the thing.

don't have any cafetiere 4 hours before bed, no tobacco for an hour or so before bed.

there are some natural smelly things you can try.

I've found working out for an hour does the trick. I'll run for a mile then, lift a bunch of weights for a good 45 min or so. then i'll settle down and in 30 min I'm out

Admiral  
19 Jun 2009 03:20 | Quote
Joined: 10 May 2009
Germany
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I agree with Jeff and tele, altough if you start playing guitar if you want to go to bed and get into that habit, and suddenly should be on stage somewhere in the afternoon, you might just exidentally pop into "wonderland" on stage...well we don't hope so ^^

Ehm, i had it during my final examination time in school when i had lots of stress, so it was good to do some more revision, but not in the long-run. I also started to watch TV in the evening and before i went to bed, it might sound stupid, but i just took a piece of paper and a pen, and then started writing about anything whats on my mind. Without putting the Pen aways from the paper for about 10 minutes i did that until my mind was empty and I didnt have anything else to think about. It worked for me, maybe you want to give it a shot?

Hope you get better soon
Empirism  
19 Jun 2009 04:02 | Quote
Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Finland
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actually when you jog at days? If you have pretty "active" just before time to go sleep, you cant get sleep. I also agree with Jeff, its only way that is good for health, but I strongly suggest you to calm things around 2 hours before sleeping, read something or just listen music. Oh, drink water :).

Hope you get bet better
Empirism

ps. I had around 9 years period same thing, i just slept around 4 hours at nights... so I turned mummy from zombie xD.
EMB5490  
19 Jun 2009 07:38 | Quote
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you really dont want to argue about thiws with me, melatonin happens to be one of the best things i know what im talking about, yeah ik the body contains stuff that is harmful in heavy doses ( arsenic...) but melatonic is basicly the opposite it helps you in every way. take it when you just cant fall asleep. but dont try to say melatonin is bad for you that is just speaking out of ignorance, and lack of reserch.
RA  
19 Jun 2009 10:41 | Quote
Joined: 24 Sep 2008
United States
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while your right i don't know what melatonin is but your argument is the same they used for cocaine in the 1800s. and adrenaline, Serotonin, and dopamine is good for the body used in a responsible way and are necessary while arsenic not so much. ignorance that makes me laugh. Also learn reading comprehension skills i wasn't attacking melatonin just your reasoning which shows major ignorance and lack of research

also just to make your fell better i looked up melatonin it's only been around in the USA for 16 years and research is just beginning to kick off. so calming it as a super drug is a little rash (cocaine?). however when used responsibly(which i assuming every one is doing my quick search doesn't say anything about abusers or even if it can be which is probably a yes like everything) has many positive side affects and very little negative ones (don't feel bad all things do watch what happens when eating to much chocolate). OO and to give you a heads up many country's are starting to have it as a controlled substance. The FDA can't touch it because it's a "dietary supplement" not a drug but in 2010 the laws are going to change so you may have to get a proscription and we all know how the USA like to mess with are lives.

so to end it I'm not going to respond to this melatonin bit again this topic is about insomnia which messed and still does with mess with me (i have had trouble in having my brain to stop thinking). and to stated it again my point was in attacking your arguement for it and to show you that it's not even a reasonable one and not melatonin it self
EMB5490  
19 Jun 2009 19:46 | Quote
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w/e my lack of reserch for what? cocaine? i never even said anyhthing about it. my ignorance towards what? cocaine which i never said.

ugh you know what w.e no sense arguing with someone who has absolutly no idea no idea what theyre talking about, if you want ill upload the pages and pages and pages and pages of reserch i have.

and acctually you cant overdose on it. but w.e.
carlsnow  
19 Jun 2009 21:28 | Quote
Joined: 29 Apr 2009
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i think its about 'routine' .. if ya can keep a good "g'nite" routine, your body will recognize and 9 outta 10 times, respond.
fer years(my wife and i sleep separate rooms so...) i've 'had' to have music playing to sleep by.
...works fer me, but the point is 'routine' imo
and my sub-routine changes (music played) in seeming 3 month jags so , for me, it aint the TYPE tune ,IE: tonight , The Residents , LAST Night it was Grant Green, before Grant it was.....etc
i've done this since i was 8 or 9 making it one seriously long-running ritual ! LOL! ..lesse, i'm 43, so ... *IKES!*
JazzMaverick  
20 Jun 2009 08:10 | Quote
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Thanks a lot for your help and advice guys. I'll definitely try all of these out and get back to you about it.

Music used to help, but now I tend to study every tune that's played, so I quit that. Thinking is definitely another problem of mine, my mind just runs free, usually about music, or other random things depending on the night.

Either way, I'm going to take all of your advice and get back to you all on it, thanks a lot guys!
Empirism  
21 Jun 2009 02:15 | Quote
Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Finland
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@Emb

While RA have a bit rough writing style, I think you little misunderstood his point. He meant that "it will knock you out and is completely natural because as i said, your body produces it" is used to many drugs before while those have substances that body produces they are turned to be unhealthy or dangerous.

I do believe that melatonin works and it can be a cure for things like Insomnia, BUT... even I do not know melatonin, I dont studied or know anything about it I see danger there.

Like Xtacty and countless legal bills for depression cause your brain use Serotonin (substance in your brain that cause happiness), this is naturally in your brains, but it have a limited amount and its regain very slowly. Like Xtacy users have long depressions after using xtacy is cause they have empty cup of serotonin.

Even I dont know melatonin, I do been researching for human body and mental cababilities over 15 years and like you said, childs produce melatonin and older do not... there are reason to it. Everything that happen naturally in body, there are reason to it. Now I fear that using melatonin can be same like xtacy that you cant get sleep (happiness in xtacy) without it. Thats not the way we want it to go do we?

If you people try melatonin or any other medical treatments instead of natural way like Jeff pointed out, I hope you keep this in mind.



EMB5490  
21 Jun 2009 06:39 | Quote
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yeah i underrstand what your saying. but it has been proven melatonin is not a harmful drug as in it doesnt kill you like cocaine and extacy id say thats the difference. and unlike sleeping pills you can take as much as you want and be fine, with the expectation of sleeping a long time and groggieness is you take way to much.

that is a good point emp, however i dont think its true, thats truthfully not the case.

JazzMaverick  
21 Jun 2009 11:16 | Quote
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Weed... The soul answer, and completely natural.

1st test was a success!
seethefnords  
21 Jun 2009 11:52 | Quote
Joined: 22 May 2009
Karma
You could try getting an audiobook and play that. Or download some audio tracks of some boring lectures and play those. Just like high school science classes, it should put you and your mind to sleep pretty quickly.XD

Seriously though, ever since I was 3, I had thoughts running through my head every time I wanted to go to sleep, and reading really didn't help much. Later on though when I was 12 or 13 I began listening to books on tape, and I fell right asleep after about half an hour. Try that for a week, maybe it'll help. Right now, I'm doing it with 'Stuff White People Like'. lol
Ozzfan486  
21 Jun 2009 13:22 | Quote
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I think I'm developing it. Or, just a bad sleep pattern being it's summer [In Pennsylvania!! =p lol]. Idk, I've been going to bed at like three or four AM and waking up at 12 or 1 in the afternoon. I'm going to try going to bed at ten tonight to try and break it.
Crunch  
21 Jun 2009 14:37 | Quote
Joined: 31 Jul 2007
United States
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I usually don't have troubles with insomnia during the summer because I roof full-time, but I struggle sleeping during the school year as well as at times during the summer. My problem tends to be psychological/emotional as opposed to physical. I think in, what I would call, a perpetual manner. I think of one thing then another thing and my thought pattern just branches out exponentially. Really, I feel like I kind of have a Bob Dylan syndrome going on. However, whereas he felt/feels lonely because people expect great things from his great imagination, I hate to sound pompous, but I think on a much "higher" level than most people. At night, with no stimuli, my brain spirals out of control and I can't shut it off.

I also go through very strange emotions when I'm trying to sleep. I'll just sit up suddenly feeling very anxious, I don't know if I'm happy, sad, angry, it's like my heart's being pulled at from every direction. On the plus side, I've gotten good song/poem ideas (notebook and pen on the nightstand) by trying to put what I feel in to words. I can't really write them then and there because my thoughts are so out of control, and in efforts to instill creativity into my diction I destroy any sense of fluidity.

Edit: That last sentence is ridiculous, but it's what I wanted to say :)
Ozzfan486  
21 Jun 2009 14:59 | Quote
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I do the same thing Crunch. I get the thing were I think too much during school because of all the new activity arond me every day. Then it pisses me off because if it keeps me up too long I feel terrible in the morning. I also understand where you're coming from with the higher level thing. You think more in-depth I might say than those around you. I have that too and it really does make people that have this kind of thing sound arrogant or pompous, but if it's really what you feel, then you really can't do anything about it. Sometimes it gets kind of scary for me though, because I'll get involved in a situation and then think of all the possible outcomes and eventually think about it so much it almost feels real. And if in reality It's not what I've begun to believe, it's kind of a slap in the face, a wake up call kind of. A couple of times me and my friend got talking about this girl that I personally believe he was in love with, and he'd ask me what he was thinking and I'd get it right every time. Mostly because he was thinking about her so much. I thought it was simple and everyone else thought it was something great. I just did the math. Eh, sorry for rambling.

Ozz
Brain_drill  
22 Jun 2009 02:39 | Quote
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Canada
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smoke a blunt a go to bed.(that my way to sleep when i can't)
Admiral  
22 Jun 2009 08:18 | Quote
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Germany
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Haha, sweet rhyme, i got to remember that one
carlsnow  
22 Jun 2009 13:46 | Quote
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Oh Yeah
JazzMaverick says:

Music used to help, but now I tend to study every tune that's played, so I quit that. Thinking is definitely another problem of mine, my mind just runs free, usually about music, or other random things depending on the night.


Yeah!!! !
it gets more and more difficult to tell my damned olde squishy brainplace to stop its , lol, 'running commentary' and leave the tune and i out of it and let us listen w/ un-learned ears!
a man o man .. i feel yer pain ... seriously. really. as in; YUP!
i blame this condition on a few conditions
1- the old musician being old (insert olde farte j/k here)

2- first 15 years or so of 'pro'-dom ('80 - '95)was mainely spent on stage(s, in studios, and finding great new musics to listen too and evolve with

3- since 1995 (a 'lil here and thar b'fore as well) things have changed dramatically in my musical 'career', my personal life, and the 'pop-culture' surrounding these doings.
-A : got married in 92 (still am, greatest gal on earth)
-B : having been a big part of punks 2nd stage AKA Hardcore.
---- Backstory ----
I had a band called Koro that (i do not mean his to sound like some jaded-braggart-geezer ...i hate that BUT this ios funny on MANY levels so..) we cut an EP that now sells on ebay fer 1'000 or so a copy and all this wierd ****, like being bootlegged so many times that i finally caved; being a Mastering Engineer and all that and not wanting inferior copies goin' round, i finally said "Yes" to a Label and Mastered the Koro Ep + Tracks intended for the Lp from the decaying 1/4" tape (8 track) ... i make more on that damned old record than i do Mastering! ...freaks me out (and says a lot about todays lack of newness imo)
sooo.. the first 15 went by in a blur of bands, stages, booze, and i mean 'absolute debauchery. i mean 'Absolute' with a capitol A, lol.
-C this all basically ended when my band Whitey (90-92) left the absolutely stunning stage of Knoxville TN's famed Bijou Theater(800+ capacity)after opening for The Ramones. These two things where 2 of those "before i die i'd love too..." things every musician caries around.
They sucked; they were bored as hell (who wouldn't be at that point?)
and played like it...and the Bijou , while amazing to play inside its historic walls, was, shall we say "light on the pay" ..
2 dreams screwed akimbo in one evening.
I broke the band up, started one (Birdhouse) with the intent to "NEVER play OUT"
we recorded, but the music 'scene'(if ya could call it that) of the mid-90's sucked.
thus..

3- i slimmed down to the occasional solo-show, and began concentrating
on studio and Mersh-work, while still trying, via Elec Git Tape Loops created live my late Mentor Terry Hill, R.I.P. behind my Acoustic + Vox ..
i lost interest in playing out for the next 7 years

4- I started Mastering for a living.
+ got really into creating Ambient, and VERY UN-ambient musics on the computer and embelishing them in the studio only to re-embellish them (fast fwd a few years)at MY studio , lol!! ... even wrote a Ballet fer chrissake! outta muh mind (but i liked the results)

5- Terry Died. He asked that i TEACH.
AND
'get back on stage'
I did / DO both.

which brings us to now.

Mastering makes me over-critical
Teaching makes me hear each little intervocalic change LOL
and there hasn't been (as in 77-87) near as many 'great NEW sounds'

+
I = Jaded Old Fart

anyways i think if i boil it down
(i need to, dammit, this is my day "off" *argh* and typing this has taken my old ass over two hours...yeah; laugh away sunny-Jim, lol)

2nd try - lol
anyways i think if i boil it down it comes to a saturated and 'informed' mind/ear.
a blessing (day) and a curse (night)


JazzMaverick says:
Weed... The soul answer, and completely natural.
1st test was a success!

dont hit bed w/out it!


RAWK!
Cs
Ozzfan486  
22 Jun 2009 14:49 | Quote
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That was probably one of the biggest and most interesting osts I've ever read.
carlsnow  
22 Jun 2009 15:36 | Quote
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Ozzfan486 says:
That was probably one of the biggest and most interesting osts I've ever read.

thank you Suh! thats very kind of you to 'say'... i was simply (don't werk in muh head, lol) trying (emphasis on TRY)to say "me too" to JazzMaverick's post and ended up on one of those 'old guy rants' rants. its what i (and y'all, now that this place is feeling 'homey' to me) do when i have a day 'off' ... so geared from working that the brain wont stfu cause Cin (wife) is hitting the Co-Op, i don't feel like working on any of my stuff, and i cant seem to practice playing than a few hours LOL
to top it off i'll even make grumpy comments like :
"Ugh! i heard that new Dream Theater, i was hoping something would change after the last two but nooooo a 3-disc circle-jerk, gawd! when will it end?)
see.

this is why we cage the geezers
JazzMaverick  
22 Jun 2009 15:59 | Quote
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haha, geezers are what entertain us young'uns around here :) You certainly know how to write a fine essay/bio though, I must say!
Phip  
22 Jun 2009 16:17 | Quote
Joined: 23 Dec 2007
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Moderator
@Carl,
My god I never thought I'd hear myself say this but.............
Hey, hey, hey who died and made you the "old guy"?!
That's my job around here!
You can have the job after I kick (prob next week some time)
LOL
You got better stories though I must admit.
Now hobble over to your easy chair and behave yourself!
Don't make me come over there and unplug your oxygen tank.
New guy comes to town and next thing you know he's gunnin' for your job!
Great post old timer
Phip
JazzMaverick  
22 Jun 2009 16:22 | Quote
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hahahaha uh oh! Phip vs. Carl!

THE BET LINE IS OPEN!

Ozzfan486  
22 Jun 2009 16:27 | Quote
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You gotta watch the whole thing lol.

Nightmare  
22 Jun 2009 16:49 | Quote
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Lebanon
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1.Do not do anything that requires concentration before going to sleep such as watching tv or reading a book or even playing guitar(although i always play before going to bed).
2. Do not not drink anything with caffeine stuff or eat heavy meals(that will disturb your body-clock and sleeping).
3. There are some audio tracks that can help u relax, that way you'll free your mind for a while.
4. Your room temperature must be cold, turn or the ac or something so it would lower your body temperature and help you sleep(but do not freeze yourself to death).


JazzMaverick  
22 Jun 2009 16:52 | Quote
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Moderator
Reading usually relaxes the mind man, common for everyone to dose off when reading.

DID YOU KNOW?!

If you eat cheese before you go to bed, you'll have nightmares!



Anyway, Audio tracks are a major distraction for me, they usually have music in them and I'm usually studying it one way or another.

Yeah, it's always hot in my room, then again, I'm almost always hot no matter the weather anyway. And I don't have AC in my house. It's England. :(
Nightmare  
22 Jun 2009 17:23 | Quote
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Lebanon
Karma: 6
ya,reading does help you relax but it depends on what are you reading. :D lol i didn't know that cheese give you nightmares. Some of the audio tracks really creeps me out, don't listen to the ones with music in them, try searching there are some really good ones, they helped me a lot. lol, too bad u don't ac, but you know what that could be the main reason thats not making you sleep, 'cause when you fall asleep your body's temperature decreases, so your body MUST lower its temperature . so you're saying that you are always HOT! no matter the weather :P
Ozzfan486  
22 Jun 2009 17:23 | Quote
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United States
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*Bold*

EDIT - ***. Well thats how to do it on Gmail chat anyways. BTW, how DID you bold that Jazzy?
Phip  
22 Jun 2009 20:15 | Quote
Joined: 23 Dec 2007
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Moderator
Ozzy,
You are INSANE! LOL
Still laughing!
Phip
Ozzfan486  
23 Jun 2009 00:46 | Quote
Joined: 01 Oct 2008
United States
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lol. Seriously man, I have no clue how to bold stuff. Like a conspiracy to keep wee thin little whiny letters in the forum, haha.
BodomBeachTerror  
23 Jun 2009 01:00 | Quote
Joined: 27 May 2008
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bold?

ha i did it
league  
23 Jun 2009 01:37 | Quote
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Tell you the truth I have been waking up at 11pm and going to sleep at 7am or so but I sleep during different parts of the day sometimes.
BodomBeachTerror  
23 Jun 2009 08:03 | Quote
Joined: 27 May 2008
Canada
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it is currently 7 am, i wnet to bed at about 12:30. i am still awake
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