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What makes metal?

Music Theory
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patleh  
24 Mar 2009 14:36 | Quote
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i wouldn't consider myself a metal fan, but i do like it here and there. So what is it that makes metal, metal. Is it just regular guitars and bass with a metal like distortion? Or is there a musical style of it that defines the genre.
MuseFan  
24 Mar 2009 14:36 | Quote
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????? lol
BodomBeachTerror  
24 Mar 2009 14:45 | Quote
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metal is just metal. lol. you can usually know it when you hear it, some people have different opinions on what "metal" is, like some people define "Heavy Metal" as bands like Underoath and that screamo crap, i define heavy metal as bands like Iron Maiden
Ozzfan486  
24 Mar 2009 15:09 | Quote
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You can describe it as better. It's the most musically diverse genre of any. Anything goes. no boundarys. And it's real. Slipknot and A7X, sorry, not metal. Thats ****ty ass pop music. ESPECIALLY A7X. Metal bands for example, classic metal are Maiden, Priest, Sabbath, Nazareth, Metallica, and Megadeth. Way more. Lately, metal has gone into the same thing rap went in to. Mainstream. Although it usually falls out of style in a year or so some new trend will take it over. But it does not die. It never has, never will. As Bob Rock said, "When they drop the bombs, there will be some cockroach playing some riff, somewhere". Belive me, Slipknot and A7X and all the others will fade away when the next trend comes. They'll release a couple more albums, and go under. Real metal like Metallica, and Megadeth though won't. Why? They don't follow the trends. They make them. That's the difference. One right now that I could see going far in the genre are Black Tide. Gabe Garcia is a great guitarist. Zakk Sandler basically being a less a-holish Lars, and Steven being the quirky, almost **, but still kickass Kirk hammett esque dude.

My two cents,

Ozz
Empirism  
24 Mar 2009 15:17 | Quote
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What makes metal? Hmm, depends... For me, metal is an feeling of power, massive soundscenes... I dont know how I could say that better...thick, vigorous and powerful sounds.

Speed can vary, from Doom metal to Speed Metal, but still common similarity can be found on soundscenes. It do not have to be necessary with distortion, but with style.

I could say that Metal is a box. Genre, where peoples have to put music for just that reason that there "always have to be some box for categorizing music" Which helps ofcourse music industry advertise bands for certain segment of audience...and so on and so on... but I think you get my point.

Cheers!
Empirism
jcb3000  
24 Mar 2009 15:31 | Quote
Joined: 09 Jul 2008
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@ Ozz
Dont be such a hater. slipknot and A7X are really good bands. dont just look at the their main singles. it makes you seem worse that one of those people that say a band is amazing from only hearing one song. they dont just play any riff. some of A7X's stuff is dam complicated. i mean it's pretty rich coming from the St Anger days of metallica.

macandkanga  
24 Mar 2009 18:49 | Quote
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One of the key elements of metal, pun intended, is that it sounds like "metal". Distorted "metal" strings making the guitar sound like a chain saw. However, this does'nt alone mean that it's metal. Michael Jackson had EVH play guitar for the song Beat it but does that make MJ or even the song metal? No. I don't think so. It's the attitude, look, lyrics, and overall feel of the band that makes it metal.

Also, understand that there is no difference between metal and heavy metal or for that matter nu metal. You may not like nu metal, rap metal or any other kind of metal but as long as it has the attitude and sound it's metal.

When I was a kid in the early 70's, Black Sabbath, Zeppelin, Judas Priest and others were heavy metal bands. There were no other bands harder than bands like them. They would'nt even play most of their songs on the radio. Remember, these bands had folk songs, ballads, blues songs but they were still considered heavy metal bands because of the overall attitude of the band and their music.

Of course this is just my opinion and we all know what they say about opinions!
blackholesun  
24 Mar 2009 20:01 | Quote
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patleh says:
is there a musical style of it that defines the genre.


Because metal is such a vast genre, it's hard to define a musical trait that outlines the entire genre. Generally the guitars use lots of distortion, but then again so does punk rock and hard rock. As Emperism said, the tempo changes from song to song, band to band, sub-genre to sub-genre.

jcb3000 says:
Dont be such a hater


Aye.
Ozzfan486  
24 Mar 2009 20:28 | Quote
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@ JCB - complicated? lol. Oooookaayyy. suure.

Compare




Chris Broderick of Megadeth.

Now lets compare Jim Root to a known metal player.


John Donais - "Redemption" solo live



A7X, I listened to them a bit. Maybe a good band for you. Not me. If I ever did get in to them it'd just be a quick fix. And I'm not trying to "hate" on you [playa, lol], I'm expressing my opinion of what makes metal metal. That IS what the thread is about if I'm not mistaken.

BTW, this isn't really metal, but people need to see this anyways.

BodomBeachTerror  
24 Mar 2009 22:49 | Quote
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i think good music is good music, no matter what the "trend" is, i like slipknot. Jim root is easily as clean as John Petrucci, not as fast tho. but speed isnt everything

besides, Slipknot is kick butt. put some melodic guitarist who sweeps everything itd sound lame.
jcb3000  
25 Mar 2009 03:23 | Quote
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that shred by syn isnt even from a song and therefore irrelevant. most of the things you posted are fast but technical?(setting aside 8 finger tap) nooo, couple sweeps maybe but still. i dont want to get too into it as this is about metal, not soloing. i just want to say one thing. how is a7x or slipknot pop? i mean people say dragonforce are metal but that doesnt mean they dont suck live.

Other metal bands dont just rely purely on guitars. some get the drums more involved and sometimes bass. its all about experimenting.
blackholesun  
25 Mar 2009 06:59 | Quote
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@ozz, if you think Slipknot are pop instead of any form of metal, then you must have a really distorted perception of reality. Think about it... Slipknot... and pop... Ok, slower. Slipknot...




and pop...




I just don't get it!




case211  
25 Mar 2009 09:07 | Quote
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In my honest opinion I agree with Emp. only because 'metal' is such a vague term. Think about it, like what Bodom said, people listen to all different types of music and have all different opinions about what it is that they are listening to. Slipknot for example, even though I don't care for them, are classified as 'Nu-metal' for some, where as some people would say that it is THE metal band of the decade. People tend to lean towards what they hear in the music. With me, I say that Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Slayer, and Metallica are naturally metal. Some people may disagree with me saying that it is soft and not even close to what "real" metal is. I generally listen to 80's hair and hard rock with some 80's metal, so for me the heaviest and most extreme feeling and sounding stuff is metal. Since my musical interests are set in the 80's time frame, everything considered metal now all sounds the same. My main point is that no matter what happens, the term metal is always constantly changing, there is not one set way to say it because of differing opinions of music and the vibe it gives off. Think about it, if a Michael Bolton fan is listening to Boston, might they consider that 'metal'?

BTW @ozzfan, I don't think that Slipknot should ever be considered pop... unless the nuclear holocaust happens. If you wonder why, watch Mad Max.
Peace
Casey
BodomBeachTerror  
25 Mar 2009 10:45 | Quote
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i totally agree with BHS. i think theres a big difference between walking around on stage carrying a goats head at ur crotch and pole dance stripping

also, Slipknot skill less?

check out the riffs in this interview (4:00 - 4:20 is a good one, but check em all out)




and then


mick thompson is easily one of the best rhythm, and DEFINATELY the most underrated guitarists in music right now imo
Empirism  
25 Mar 2009 11:58 | Quote
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Well, for me this represent metal as its purest form. But its my taste and my opinion, there are many who are behind Metallica, Sepultura, Megadeth, Hammerfall and list is endless...

Enjoy,
Candlemass: The Dying Illusion


macandkanga  
25 Mar 2009 13:05 | Quote
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Although I'm not a huge fan of Wikipedia, this article is really good:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_metal_music

Heavy metal (often referred to simply as metal) is a genre of rock music[1] that developed in the late 1960s and early 1970s, largely in England and the United States.[2] With roots in blues-rock and psychedelic rock, the bands that created heavy metal developed a thick, massive sound, characterized by highly amplified distortion, extended guitar solos, emphatic beats, and overall loudness. Heavy metal lyrics and performance styles are generally associated with masculinity and machismo.[3]

Early heavy metal bands such as Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, and Deep Purple attracted large audiences, though they were often critically reviled, a status common throughout the history of the genre. In the mid-1970s, Judas Priest helped spur the genre's evolution by discarding much of its blues influence; Motörhead introduced a punk rock sensibility and an increasing emphasis on speed. Bands in the New Wave of British Heavy Metal such as Iron Maiden followed in a similar vein. Before the end of the decade, heavy metal had attracted a worldwide following of fans known as "metalheads" or "headbangers".

In the 1980s, glam metal became a major commercial force with groups like Mötley Crüe. Underground scenes produced an array of more extreme, aggressive styles: thrash metal broke into the mainstream with bands such as Metallica, while other styles like death metal and black metal remain subcultural phenomena. Since the mid-1990s, popular styles such as nu metal, which often incorporates elements of funk and hip hop; and metalcore, which blends extreme metal with hardcore punk, have further expanded the definition of the genre.
Empirism  
25 Mar 2009 14:16 | Quote
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Yeah, ofcourse we can think further of "metal" if we think that Led Zeppelin is early metal... they yes sound heavier on that time, but Black Sabbath was in my humble opinion first considerable "heavy metal" band that fill the definition of what is known as metal today.

If we consider Led Zeppelin early heavy metal band, we can also look earlier and take Steppenwolf as an example. Many, me included consider Steppenwolf as an first pioneer of Heavy Metal. Also term "Heavy Metal" is first used in music when Steppenwolf was used "Heavy Metal Thunder" in their lyrics on song Born to be wild.

late 70' bands like Zeppelin, Black Sabbath in front row, heavy metal as a an term was very slightly used. It was established better at 80'
when NWOBHM (new wave of British Heavy Metal) Phenomenon was rised to get heavy metal more popular and bands like Judas Priest was shown the way... Anyway, just my 2 cents and discussions of even this musical box can be continue forever :)

Cheers!
Empirism
Ozzfan486  
25 Mar 2009 15:12 | Quote
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BHS - I meant pop as in over-produced mainstream MTV material.

And the reason I went off with the guitar posts JCB is because thats what you were talking about. The reason I don't like Slipknot is above. And A7X included. And the lyrical content. I know metal is an outsider's choice music, but come on. "People=****"? "Pulse of the Maggots"? Gimme a break. And most of the people that act like thaey are oh sooooooo educated about all music and everything are most of their fans. Minus you guys, ehom obviously know your ****.

Idk. Say what you want. I may be wrong. So may you. I don't like them and thats not changing. sorry.

Ozz

blackholesun  
25 Mar 2009 16:04 | Quote
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I'm not a massive fan of either band, but the whole point of this thread is explaining what is metal. I think we've proved that Slipknot and A7X are both metal, even though Ozz doesn't like them.

Back to the topic though, there are loads of different metal sub-genres, each with their own characteristics. As macandkanga said, wikipedia is a good source of info and ideas.

Just make sure Ozz hasn't vandelised A7X's page!
Ozzfan486  
25 Mar 2009 16:25 | Quote
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Good idea!
macandkanga  
25 Mar 2009 16:36 | Quote
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Trust me. I don't like most of the sub-genres of metal. I'm somewhat of snob when it comes to metal. Priest, Maiden, Sabbath, Mettallica, Megadeth, Slayer, Ozzy, Dio, Pantera....that's metal at it's purest to me!
Empirism  
25 Mar 2009 16:49 | Quote
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I dont like few either, but I do like many sub-genres like Doom Metal and Gothic Metal and its variations like Lacuna Coil. Always puked for speed metal like Sepultura and Napalm Death lol...

Also "Avant-garde metal" or should I say Experimental metal is also interesting like Arcturus, very cool Norwegian metal band.
blackholesun  
25 Mar 2009 18:55 | Quote
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macandkanga says:
Trust me. I don't like most of the sub-genres of metal.


To be honest, those bands you listed are pretty diverse, all the way from the proto-metal of Black Sabbath up to the groove metal of Pantera via the thrash of Metallica and Megadeth. Things do get a bit more extreme though.

I didn't use to be a fan of the "cookie monster" vocals until a couple of years ago, but now I can listen to them pretty much fine, with minimal squirming :) Opeth's in particular have a really consistant, gutteral sound, and are interspersed with clean vocals. It's weird/interesting that how a few years ago I would dismiss a band as not being worth listening to because of the vocals, but now I'm like "yeah, that's pretty cool stuff". Nine times out of ten, I still prefer clean vocals though. I mean like James Hetfield, not 100% clean, with the odd rough growl thrown in here and there for constrast.
Ozzfan486  
25 Mar 2009 20:08 | Quote
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I actually like James when he growls better than his clean stuff. Now anyway. Anything "Black Album" and before is awsome though.
guitarmastergod  
26 Mar 2009 12:38 | Quote
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how is slipknot not metal? they down tune, scream, and have healy distorted guitars. are they not metal cause they have a unique sound?
macandkanga  
26 Mar 2009 15:13 | Quote
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@guitarmastergod,

I don't think anyone here is saying Slipknkot is not metal. I do think that some people don't like them and because of that they do not want to associate them with metal. I personally do think they are a metal band but not the traditional type.
BodomBeachTerror  
26 Mar 2009 15:18 | Quote
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Ozzfan486 says:
Slipknot and A7X, sorry, not metal. Thats ****ty ass pop music.


i think someone here is saying Slipknot isnt metal

by no means are they "Traditional" metal, but metal none the less

i was shocked when i first heard them, Heretic anthem live on the Conan O'brian show (saw it on youtube, not the actual show). i was thinking, this is something different. and ive loved them ever since
Nightmare  
26 Mar 2009 15:29 | Quote
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Empirism I totally agree with what you said about heavy metal and sabbath.

Empirism says:
I dont like few either, but I do like many sub-genres like Doom Metal and Gothic Metal and its variations like Lacuna Coil. Always puked for speed metal like Sepultura and Napalm Death lol...


Candlemass is Doom metal :)

whats with Slipknot?!?! SLIPKNOT IS METALL even if you dont like'em they're metal, but i usually disagree with people who say that slipknot isn't nu metal.
macandkanga  
26 Mar 2009 15:51 | Quote
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Ya know, there's another topic going on in the forum called Metal. I think we should end the topic of what's metal and what's not and just talk about the bands we like.
league  
26 Mar 2009 18:44 | Quote
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macandkanga says:
Trust me. I don't like most of the sub-genres of metal. I'm somewhat of snob when it comes to metal. Priest, Maiden, Sabbath, Mettallica, Megadeth, Slayer, Ozzy, Dio, Pantera....that's metal at it's purest to me!


I agree.

Metal gets weirder every time. I believe Slipknot is not Metal because

1.They have really soft pop influenced vocals in some songs.

2.The guitars dont really play any Metal Riffs. Its simply fast low and muddy distortion. Mick Thompson is a good guitarist but he hardly diaplays his skill. The other guitarist cant solo.

3. They have a DJ

They just dont sound Metal and I've been to their shows and the Drummer is probably the best of the lot.

They dont have that Metal attitude like Maiden, Sabbath, Metallica etc.
To me they sound like a knockoff of Metal.
Ozzfan486  
26 Mar 2009 20:25 | Quote
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Jordison is really good. True.
Nightmare  
27 Mar 2009 15:18 | Quote
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league says:
I agree.

Metal gets weirder every time. I believe Slipknot is not Metal because

1.They have really soft pop influenced vocals in some songs.

2.The guitars dont really play any Metal Riffs. Its simply fast low and muddy distortion. Mick Thompson is a good guitarist but he hardly diaplays his skill. The other guitarist cant solo.

3. They have a DJ

They just dont sound Metal and I've been to their shows and the Drummer is probably the best of the lot.

They dont have that Metal attitude like Maiden, Sabbath, Metallica etc.
To me they sound like a knockoff of Metal.

:D the other guitarist can't solo lol.. well if the other guitarist can't solo that doesn't make the band not metal, plus there are also some other alternative metal bands that got djs. have u ever listened to Lordi? they sound like Backstreet Boys with only a bit rough vocal but still my opinion doesnt make'em not metal.
BodomBeachTerror  
27 Mar 2009 18:43 | Quote
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since this guy just raped his guitar does that mean Nile isnt a metal band? and James Root is a great guitarist


league  
29 Mar 2009 02:21 | Quote
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Just what I needed to prove me wrong.

Jim Root can solo. but Slipknot is not Metal.
patleh  
29 Mar 2009 23:48 | Quote
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would people consider gnr a metal band or a hard rock band?
BodomBeachTerror  
29 Mar 2009 23:51 | Quote
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i call them classic rock
blackholesun  
30 Mar 2009 03:09 | Quote
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Hard rock
6StringEvil  
30 Mar 2009 06:49 | Quote
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GNR is a glam/hard rock band.
SchecterC7  
2 Apr 2009 18:45 | Quote
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Metal is different things to different people. You cant lump it into 1 main thing. Everyone has different opinions on what "Metal" is. To me, Judas Priest (early Priest, i.e. British Steel, Screaming for Vengeance)
is about as "metal" as you can get. BUT, thats only my opinion of what metal sounds like. Listen to "The Hellion/Electric Eye" by Priest... to me, THAT'S FREAKIN' METAL!!!! \../
case211  
2 Apr 2009 20:51 | Quote
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thats what I believe metal is, its just too generalized to sound like one thing. Guys that grew up in the 60's would say that Led Zeppelin is metal, for me I prefer the 80's stuff, which I have asked some kids in my school if 'this is metal'(it was Mr. Crowley by Ozzy) and he said no way that could ever be considered metal. I don't think that just becuase you down tune everything makes it metal, its just deeper, sure it is most commonly used by metal bands now but, if you look at a lot of bands from the 2002-2005 era, they downtuned quite a bit and used 7 string guitars too. and when did G'N'R become classic rock?
Welcome to the forum by the way:)
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