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New Rules To The Licks Section

Music Theory
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JazzMaverick  
13 Jan 2009 14:00 | Quote
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
United Kingdom
Lessons: 24
Licks: 37
Karma: 47
Moderator
There have been a lot of complaints on the licks section, so we have decided to make a change. As of now there will be new rules.

You must with every submitted lick - write about it! It must explain what the lick consists of otherwise all the mods decide if we will delete it or not.

Licks will not be accepted if:

- They're messy and unreadable.
- They don't make sense.
- You have not explained your lick in detail.
- The Mods feel this is not a lick.
Please check all of your licks and edit them asap as we will be deleting them very soon otherwise.

Improvements are being made to the lessons section, also.
RelaxedDude  
13 Jan 2009 16:51 | Quote
Joined: 26 May 2008
United States
Licks: 2
Karma: 3
You should change the last one to

"The mods aren't feeling the lick"
EMB5490  
13 Jan 2009 17:02 | Quote
Joined: 10 Feb 2008
United States
Lessons: 1
Licks: 1
Karma: 31
ye lol
foogered  
13 Jan 2009 17:07 | Quote
Joined: 30 Apr 2008
United States
Lessons: 2
Licks: 11
Karma: 9
I feel like I have a pretty good hang of what constitutes "a lick", but just for kicks, why don't you outline what you think a lick is for us?
JazzMaverick  
13 Jan 2009 17:33 | Quote
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
United Kingdom
Lessons: 24
Licks: 37
Karma: 47
Moderator
A short melody that fits within your solos, so if you're improvising, and perhaps running out of instant ideas, you might want to use a short melody that grabs you. Then you carry off into your improvising again. It's all good fun.

My point in saying the Mods feel like it isn't a lick, is if it's wrong. Because then you're just teaching someone something that's wrong and they'll have a difficult time understanding why.

We're aiming for people to explain their licks, talk about how it works.
blackholesun  
13 Jan 2009 17:55 | Quote
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
United Kingdom
Licks: 1
Karma: 11
Moderator
I think we should also include our own riffs in there, otherwise it's not much use to the people who mostly play rhythm guitar.

Riffs and licks should then be divided down into catagories based on difficulty and genre.

BHS
EMB5490  
13 Jan 2009 18:10 | Quote
Joined: 10 Feb 2008
United States
Lessons: 1
Licks: 1
Karma: 31
are ther even 5 mods? lol
Phip  
13 Jan 2009 18:34 | Quote
Joined: 23 Dec 2007
United States
Lessons: 1
Karma: 45
Moderator
blackholesun says:
their opinion is equally as valid, even if they're not a mod.

I think the idea is that you were chosen as moderators because of your experience an music knowledge, yes? If so then you have a better concept of what is a well written lick. Personal taste will always be an issue i'm sure but sometimes things are submitted that are just plain awful. There is a bit of clutter in the licks and lessons sections and I'm glad to see someone is trying to sort it all out so that it's easier to use and so I can find what I'm looking for quickly. It would be nice to hear the licks so that we could decide which ones we'd like to learn. And the lessons section should begin with "how to hold a pick" and "this is how to tune you guitar" and end with "play like hendrix". I'm in favor of sorting and "cleaning house" in the lessons and licks. Keep going, it's getting better!
Phip
blackholesun  
13 Jan 2009 18:38 | Quote
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
United Kingdom
Licks: 1
Karma: 11
Moderator
There are three I think, but I didn't say anything about five mods. I said that a regular member's opinion is equally as valid as a mods, so it shouldn't have to take five times as many people to make a decision. If a mod gets a PM saying that a member thinks a lick is bad then the mod should check it out, not wait for another four complaints before acting. Besides, different mods could get PMs from different people, all about the same lick.
JazzMaverick  
13 Jan 2009 18:52 | Quote
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
United Kingdom
Lessons: 24
Licks: 37
Karma: 47
Moderator
Well naturally we'll check it out. You're kind of missing my point though, I feel it's important the members have their say and not just one saying it's sh!t with no reason. And if we feel the lick is ok, while one or two don't we wait until we hear more.

I meant 5 members of the forum EMB. I think it's just BHS, Fro and myself who are Mods.

Also, I meant by we as the Admin, myself and the forum membes who have complained. As a mod I think it's only fair to make sure the members are happy.
JazzMaverick  
13 Jan 2009 18:59 | Quote
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
United Kingdom
Lessons: 24
Licks: 37
Karma: 47
Moderator
Riffs aren't licks. We could look into making a riff section, but I personaly feel actual structures to songs should be left in the topics, so we can discuss it.
blackholesun  
13 Jan 2009 19:18 | Quote
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
United Kingdom
Licks: 1
Karma: 11
Moderator
I didn't say anything about song structure or form, I meant just a one/two bar riff, for if someone is trying to write a decent riff but is stuck for ideas. People could showcase their riffs, explain what it is about them that makes them sound good, and then other people can go from there and write their own.

It's pretty much just the same as having a licks section for people who are stuck for ideas while soloing.
telecrater  
13 Jan 2009 20:29 | Quote
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
United States
Lessons: 8
Karma: 13
I have to say that I think that the lick's are really a gate way to lessons. It's a good place for to start cutting teeth and fleshing out how to tab.

i say if you get complaints just delete it... or do handle it like the lessons and have it be approved before it's posted public.
les_paul  
13 Jan 2009 20:35 | Quote
Joined: 14 Feb 2008
United States
Lessons: 3
Licks: 2
Karma: 11
I just realized all the mods are from the UK! It's a conspiracy!!! LOL...JK

I think this is a good idea. As for telling how your licks fit into a solo, I don't really know enough theory to do this. Feel free to delete my licks as they are very simple.
Phip  
13 Jan 2009 21:21 | Quote
Joined: 23 Dec 2007
United States
Lessons: 1
Karma: 45
Moderator
You know an hour ago I couldn't tell you what the difference is between a lick and a riff, and I was going to post the question, but I decided to educate myself, so I googled it, and for the benefit of other people like me, here is what i learned.....

Q) What is the difference between a lick and a riff?

A) A lick is a short, formulaic phrase generally used in improvised solos. Licks tend to be common to an idiom: bluegrass pros recognize common bluegrass licks (like a Lester Flatt G-run), which differ from the licks a jazz cat would use. Many players string these licks together, letting their fingers remember what to do next. They instill their own personality in the solo in the way they play the lick or in the moments between the licks, as well as in the melodies they pull out of their head.
Some folks use riffing to mean jamming, but a riff can also be thought of as a clearly defined phrase that is unique to a song. The riff in "Day Tripper," for example, is instantly recognizable as an important part of the song; it's the hook, the musical catchphrase. In jazz, riff has a specific meaning: a short melodic phrase that is repeated, often over changing harmonies. It can function as the melody of a song or as an ostinato for a soloist to improvise over. Riffs likely are derived from the call-and-response patterns of African music, and the word itself is thought to have originated in New Orleans marching band music, from which it entered the jazz lexicon. Count Basie's "One O'Clock Jump" and Glenn Miller's "In the Mood" are two popular riff-based tunes. But the word riff has come to mean different things to different people.

So, now I know.

Now I have a suggestion and I don't know if it is possible or if it is too much effort, but what about lick and riff pages just like the chord page where there are a series of check boxes (genre, guitar type, skill level etc) and finally a box marked "get it". this way you could specify the type of riffs or licks you are interested in at your level of skill and guitar type and then click "get it" and bingo there they are?????? maybe/yes/no?
Just a thought
Phip

P.S. This concept might also work for the lessons. It would be a huge help to find lessons based on skill level and knowledge (or the lack thereof) and maybe even type of guitar and be able to get to them without "sifting" through tons of lessons I'm not ready for yet.

then I googled "Lester Flatt G-run" because I was curious as hell and found some examples and sat down and played them. It was great fun!
Phip  
13 Jan 2009 21:54 | Quote
Joined: 23 Dec 2007
United States
Lessons: 1
Karma: 45
Moderator
Here is how I see the lessons for beginners, and I think they should be organized (numbered) to help a beginner learn in the proper order of importance. Maybe break the beginners lessons into two major categories. The “physical act of playing” and “music theory”
1) this is what a guitar looks like. (You laugh, but we are talking about people who are interested in learning and know nothing YET.)
2) these are the names of the strings on a guitar
3) these are the notes (first four frets)
4) this is how to properly finger the strings and notes (very important)
5) these are some basic first position chords
6) these are some typical ways that chords are shown in sheet music (pictures)
7) this is how an open string is shown and what is meant by the X on some strings on some diagrams.
8) This is a good practice routine for beginners
9) This is what a root note is.
I think you get my drift on this. If you’re going to show a beginner from scratch how to play the guitar DON’T start her/him off with “hammer ons”. You MUST guide them into the whole experience. The lessons should be encouraging and keep the beginners interest and show total honesty about how to not get discouraged in the first weeks of learning and what to expect (finger pain etc).

These are just ramdom suggestions and I don’t pretend to know the actual order of importance. I leave that to you seasoned players to decide.
AlSO VERY IMPORTANT, perhaps a disclaimer at the top of the page such as "these lessons are in no way meant to be a substitute for professional lessons by a competent teacher, they are meant as useful reference material. Please consider the importance and benefits of a "one on one" teacher/pupil relationship".
Phip
RelaxedDude  
13 Jan 2009 21:59 | Quote
Joined: 26 May 2008
United States
Licks: 2
Karma: 3
Duuuude, thanks man

I too was confused as to the difference between a lick and a riff, but now I know

And thats a good idea, but would it just be a variety of premade licks/riffs and then is like a sorting thing?
Phip  
13 Jan 2009 22:07 | Quote
Joined: 23 Dec 2007
United States
Lessons: 1
Karma: 45
Moderator
@ RelaxedDude,
Well, I don't know. I suppose it could be popular well know riffs and licks and also some that are submitted by our members. the beauty of it is that you can select the types you want to see and click "get it". when you go to the chords page you first click on "C" and then "maj7" and then "split chords" (if necessary) and then "get" and splat there is the chord. In this case splat and there are a bunch of riffs that match your criteria and maybe some interesting notes on the way to use the lick or riff and stuff like that. That's the idea anyway. It is probably a lot of work to do, but I think it would be a magnificent addition to the site.
Phipster
Guitarslinger124  
14 Jan 2009 09:52 | Quote
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
United States
Lessons: 12
Licks: 42
Karma: 38
Moderator
I dont recall if this was said or not, but i do think the licks should be categorized by both genre and difficulty. I dont agree with removing a lick because someone doesnt like the way it sounds and i agree with BHS that riffs should be included in the lick section.
Heather  
14 Jan 2009 15:32 | Quote
Joined: 21 Aug 2008
United Kingdom
Licks: 2
Karma: 19
Well I can see why what someone would consider a poor or pointless lick to be worth taking down. But I'm not sure if I'm so sure about it, I'll admit even some ofthe licks I've posted aren't exactly the most creative but some people still appreciate us putting them up. When I tried getting myself to start fretting licks I made a mess, it either just sounded wrong or was too easy even at my prefered standards. I'm not sure if some licks should go down if people think they're 'too easy' or 'sound out of place' we all go differently with paces and taste. I'm not saying I' against it or in personal favor of it I'm only in the middle.

The five complaints thing does seem reasonable I'll admit.

Haha, Phip did a lot of research. I wish I had his dedication.
RelaxedDude  
14 Jan 2009 15:37 | Quote
Joined: 26 May 2008
United States
Licks: 2
Karma: 3
Heather says:
But I'm not sure if I'm so sure


lol wat?
JazzMaverick  
14 Jan 2009 21:43 | Quote
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
United Kingdom
Lessons: 24
Licks: 37
Karma: 47
Moderator
:( I'm trying to make this site cleaner and more educational. I was expecting more enthusiasm.

Heather, I mean delete licks which are clearly wrong and/or show no understanding. Your licks are educational to beginners and have helped others.
Ozzfan486  
14 Jan 2009 21:54 | Quote
Joined: 01 Oct 2008
United States
Licks: 1
Karma: 18
Awww no "Smoke On The Water"? =[ lol. I get it. Licks that are wrong just get deleted. Simple as that. But all this stuff about five complaints to a mod is a bit off. I dunno.
RelaxedDude  
14 Jan 2009 22:27 | Quote
Joined: 26 May 2008
United States
Licks: 2
Karma: 3
Hahaha Im sorry Missy, Im all for it!

Yay!
lol
mattmurray  
15 Jan 2009 10:16 | Quote
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
United States
Karma: 5
I think the lessons section is in dire need of this same sort of thing. There are some atrocious lessons from people who clearly know much less than they think they do. It's irresponsible for some of those lessons to even be available because of the detrimental affect they can have on an impressionable guitarists' progress.
RelaxedDude  
15 Jan 2009 17:12 | Quote
Joined: 26 May 2008
United States
Licks: 2
Karma: 3
lol you kinda sound like baudelaire
JazzMaverick  
18 May 2009 14:46 | Quote
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
United Kingdom
Lessons: 24
Licks: 37
Karma: 47
Moderator
Bump for the new members! Just so they know.
league  
19 May 2009 00:33 | Quote
Joined: way back
United States
Lessons: 2
Karma: 10
I never even knew! thanks for the info Jazzmav.

I've never written a lick because I feel its not worthy. I mean if I had a great lick I probably wouldn't share it.
JazzMaverick  
19 May 2009 16:59 | Quote
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
United Kingdom
Lessons: 24
Licks: 37
Karma: 47
Moderator
haha I do that with the ones I use. :P
Afro_Raven  
19 May 2009 19:05 | Quote
Joined: way back
United Kingdom
Lessons: 1
Karma: 20
Moderator
Guys, just so you know Jazzy and I have talked about this a fair bit, and we both agree that the licks section currently looks like a highly disorganised piece of crap! There has recently been a sudden influx of members on the site, most of whom are newbies at guitar and whom I have no issue with whatsoever (we all have to start somewhere right, even modern day Beethovens such as myself, lol I jest of course.)
However the issue I do have is that many of these less experienced players are using the lick section to post up pretty much anything, and whilst some of these ideas are good, there are are also some that simply DO NOT constitute licks.
I am perfectly happy with the new rules, and I'm also in agreement with Jazz on what is and isn't a 'lick', so we will in the near future be ruthlessly tidying up the licks section. I hate to sound like one of those annoying teachers at school, but we are only doing this to make the site easier and more accessible for you good people to use! We DO have hobbies, and better things to do, such as actually playing guitar and learning about music.

OK, mini-rant over.
Sorry for the lecture guys

Afro
telecrater  
19 May 2009 19:23 | Quote
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
United States
Lessons: 8
Karma: 13
nice rant, afro but why not make it a little simpler...

if the lick sucks delete it other wise leave it :)

just like the lessons it's gotten big and I think for now sub-divideing it would really help looking for something useful. But that does sound like a lot of work.

Big thanks to the moderators for all the work they are doing
league  
19 May 2009 23:06 | Quote
Joined: way back
United States
Lessons: 2
Karma: 10
Sounds like a lot of work.

I agree, if the lick is a repeat or clone then it has to be removed.

@Jazz. Do you mean you post your worst licks?
les_paul  
23 May 2009 01:52 | Quote
Joined: 14 Feb 2008
United States
Lessons: 3
Licks: 2
Karma: 11
I know there is a thread on the lesson section but I can't find it so I will use this one.

I think the Requests section needs a little attention. There are four that say "beginner" and one simple says "please give me an idea". Maybe if it were cleaned up a bit the more knowledgeable members could better see what lessons need to be written.
JazzMaverick  
25 May 2009 10:17 | Quote
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
United Kingdom
Lessons: 24
Licks: 37
Karma: 47
Moderator
Nah, I don't post my worst, just licks I don't use as often as I used to. In order for me to keep my solos sounding original, I keep my inspirations a secret :P

LP, we can't edit that section as mods, but I have asked Admin about that a while ago, I agree with you and find some of it to be fairly annoying.
harleyofdoom  
26 Mar 2011 22:03 | Quote
Joined: way back
United States
Karma: 10
Any chance one of you crazy admins could change the font the licks section is displayed in..
I find that Courier New makes reading and writing tabs much easier as every symbol takes up the same amount of space (a dash is the same width as a number)
nullnaught  
26 Mar 2011 22:06 | Quote
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Karma: 22
Id like to post part of a song. But dont know where to do that.
JazzMaverick  
26 Mar 2011 22:16 | Quote
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
United Kingdom
Lessons: 24
Licks: 37
Karma: 47
Moderator
@ Harley, hey dude, that's a good idea! I'll see what I can do for you :)

Post it on here - the topic section for now dude. :) Admin's working on a few new sections for us.
gshredder2112  
26 Mar 2011 22:17 | Quote
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
United States
Licks: 3
Karma: 22
id like too see em rated in difficulty,genre,maybe add backing tracks for em,but hey this is a 2year old arguemnt,and nothing has changed yet so yeah....
JazzMaverick  
26 Mar 2011 22:18 | Quote
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
United Kingdom
Lessons: 24
Licks: 37
Karma: 47
Moderator
Yeah, we're working on that too actually haha. I've been trying to arrange it in a way that's similar to the lessons section... but better.
gshredder2112  
26 Mar 2011 22:22 | Quote
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
United States
Licks: 3
Karma: 22
aha ok jazz sounds cool
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