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kcaj  
29 Nov 2008 21:57 | Quote
Joined: 25 Sep 2008
Karma: 1
I have now memorized the pentatonic scale back and forth but when I solo it really dose not sound all that amazing. I can play well its just the scale. Lets use Hendrix he didnít use just one scale did he I would really like to get this sorted out please help
EMB5490  
29 Nov 2008 22:04 | Quote
Joined: 10 Feb 2008
United States
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have you memorized every mode of it? now memorize the maj scale and its modes. i did that first. it makes the other pentatonic modes a lot easier, you can incorparate the notes from those scales to the onetatonics. the key of using scales is playing them but having them not sound like scales, but like music. play songs with those scales you know and youll see that. i take it uve memorized the "box" shape also. also they would play notes and scales over the chords, thats why it sounded good. theyd end with bends or solo finish to a note either the root on the scale or the root of the chord being played, which is usually the same thing.
BodomBeachTerror  
29 Nov 2008 22:08 | Quote
Joined: 27 May 2008
Canada
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i learned pentatonic box shapes first, then the diatonic scales
Littlewing  
30 Nov 2008 09:49 | Quote
Joined: 22 Sep 2008
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The way I did it was, I learned all my Pentatonic positions, then found rocks songs that contain Pentatonic phrases(99.9% of rock songs).
Then, I learned my Diatonic modes(Ionian, Dorian, Phyrigian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian, Locrian.). After that, I learned my Symetrical Patterns(Diminished and Augmented. Finally, I learned the Harmonic and Melodic minor. Listen to some Jazz artists and you'll get some good phrasing ideas.
JazzMaverick  
30 Nov 2008 14:31 | Quote
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
United Kingdom
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Moderator
It's not just about playing the modes or pentatonic position. What you need to understand is that each mode has what I call "sweet notes" the notes which obviously sound nicer than some others. Because it depends on the chords which are playing over the scale. Do you get what I mean? You all need to understand this pretty soon. Otherwise your solos will always sound like a scale instead of sounding like Jimi Hendrix - if that's who you're aiming to sound like.

This is why I've been writing lessons about arpeggios lately. You need to first know what key the song is in, then the scale/modal position, and then learn what chords are being played.

During each bar of each chord you will only play the notes which are used in that chord! Why? Because otherwise it will not justify the music!

This is what I mean when I say "Compliment the chords!"
Littlewing  
30 Nov 2008 14:52 | Quote
Joined: 22 Sep 2008
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JazzMaverick says:
Compliment the chords!


Not always the answer. Many Jazz artists use accidentals and chromatisism while soloing(Of course you already know this). Non-Harmonic tones are very useful in creating interesting soloing(refering back to my lesson)
JoeDalton  
1 Dec 2008 02:26 | Quote
Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Karma: 1
True, but you resolve the tension of chromatisms into a chordal sound.
In that sense even the chromatism can compliment the chords, just less directly.
Besides, it isn't one way or the other, both complimenting the harmony and an individual melody are ways to create a solo.

Anyway, think outside of running the scales, play melody. Thats honestly the only advice there is too give without running out all the underlying theory.
GRX40  
1 Dec 2008 21:22 | Quote
Joined: 20 Mar 2008
United States
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JazzMaverick says:
It's not just about playing the modes or pentatonic position. What you need to understand is that each mode has what I call "sweet notes" the notes which obviously sound nicer than some others. Because it depends on the chords which are playing over the scale. Do you get what I mean? You all need to understand this pretty soon. Otherwise your solos will always sound like a scale instead of sounding like Jimi Hendrix - if that's who you're aiming to sound like.


I think I read somewhere (perhaps in one of your lesson)that these "sweet notes" are often the 1, 3, 5 and 7 of either the chord (or scale? I forget which)... I am just wondering if this is true or am I just imagining things.

Also, the thing with the Pentatonic scale that I often fall into is just staying in the box position. I'm trying to combat this by learning the scale all over the fretboard, so I'm not just in that one area of the neck for the whole time.
JazzMaverick  
2 Dec 2008 09:55 | Quote
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
United Kingdom
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Moderator
@ Littlewing,
Exactly what JD said, you need to make sure you go back to the complimenting notes otherwise it'll sound crap. We Jazz musicians go off into accidentals only during the bar, we never end the bar with an accidental or at the start, only during and make sure the entire bar isn't just accidentals. Unless you're doing it on purpose and leading the listener somewhere.

@GRX
Yeah, basically when you get numbers like that it creates a chord, but it derrives from the scale. 1,3,5 and 7 are the common chords, which are made from the numbers (note order) in the scale. Does that make sense?

It's good to get away from the box position, but it's also important not to make it sound as if you're playing in a new mode. So, remember the "sweet notes" in the position you're originally playing in, and make sure you go back to those all over the fret board. This will help you to understand the fret board a lot easier and also help you to improve on your improvisation.

macandkanga  
2 Dec 2008 12:32 | Quote
Joined: 03 Oct 2008
United States
Karma: 21
Another thing to do with pentatonic scales is to play the notes in your solo out of sync with the beat. I cheated recently by recording my solo then dragging it a little to the right and it sounds great! It's difficult to do if you havent practiced doing it right live.
JoeDalton  
3 Dec 2008 02:04 | Quote
Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Karma: 1
That sounds like the bebop concept.
Yes, shifting the focus of a melody away from the heavy beats 1 and 3
it is sometimes fun to shift it to 2 and 4 or even the in between beats (not sure how you split them in english) so instead of landing on the fourth land on the eigth in between.
Thats not just pentatonic.

Out of sync is the wrong word though, you still play in the beat, just at different times. Out of sync implies to not play the right tempo, which will always sound bad.


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