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Help for jazz

Music Theory
shredguitar17  
23 Oct 2008 04:12 | Quote
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
United States
Lessons: 2
Karma: 7
So it seems after 6 years of playing, ive been through MOST music styles . This is one ive been wanting to learn for a while, and after the underated guitarist post by makcadconga, i saw a guitarist (posted by whom i dont know sorry) Guphrie Govan i believe, i instantaniously wanted to know more about jazz. So any starting chords (i know 7ths and diminished are pretty popular in jazz) or scales would be great thanks guys!
JoeDalton  
23 Oct 2008 05:07 | Quote
Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Karma: 1
While I would encourage the study of jazz, I'm afraid your question can't REALLY be answered.
There is no such thing as, starting chords or scales to jazz. Jazz is about context, the chords we use are all the same (with the exception perhaps of high tension chords, those are pretty exclusive to jazz) just the way in which we use them is different.
One example would be the 2 5 1 alteration, where we shift the scale of a piece for a little bit. You can find a lesson on it in the lesson section I wrote recently.

Same goes with scales, we mostly use the major scale and it's modes, but just a LOT of them. Like a piece I use for practice is in B minor, the total amount of time I play the B minor scale is about 4 bars.

Obviously it can be explained but it would require more something allong the lines of a 500 page book than a post on a forum. You are probably better off looking for a teacher.

One rule though, you do not use bends in jazz.
JazzMaverick  
23 Oct 2008 08:22 | Quote
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
United Kingdom
Lessons: 24
Licks: 37
Karma: 47
Moderator
I posted Guthrie Govan's video. He's a very fun Jazz Fusion musician, and definitely loves to experiment. I recommend checking out his album "Erotic Cakes" (taken from The Simpsonís episode).

I would say there are starting chords though, JD. like Maj7 and m7.

If you can read notation, I recommend getting "The Real Book" sixth edition. (virtually impossible to find in stores, but you never know.) Because it shows Jazz standards, and within those Jazz standards it gives you the chord progression for each, and tells you what chords is being played on what bar. It's very helpful to learn.

Diminished and Dominant chords are also used.

The understanding of Jazz is that they learn the rules, then break them. They venture outside of the scale and know exactly when and how to bring it back into the scale before the end of that bar.

It's also important to understand simple progressions which are used. And the most common one in Jazz is the II-V-I progression. I've got a lesson on the "Major Scale and Modes Within" which should help you. I've also got a lesson which states the typical chords which are used in Jazz in this day in age.

Hope that helps. :)
JazzMaverick  
23 Oct 2008 09:06 | Quote
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
United Kingdom
Lessons: 24
Licks: 37
Karma: 47
Moderator
Also, check out Jamey Abersold. His lessons are insanely helpful.

He has 57 volumes, and inside each volume contains around 21 tracks that either demonstrate what he's saying, or are jam tracks so you can apply what he's just tought you. The books themselves have around 80 pages.

You won't regret learning off of him, trust me.
RA  
23 Oct 2008 14:45 | Quote
Joined: 24 Sep 2008
United States
Karma: 16
if you want to know about chords Ted Geene's "Chord chemistry" is a good starting point and you don't really need to read to get everything form it only one section requires it (i think it's important section through) but by no means is this going to tell you everything just the beginning of the never ending exploration of jazz music. but chords aren't even the whole thing look aT Miles he has a song that only has two chords just two dom. 7th and one only played for a bar or two
JoeDalton  
23 Oct 2008 15:17 | Quote
Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Karma: 1
Shrug, I would not say maj7 or 7 chords are "jazz" chords, they are chords. So I don't see them as starting chords to anything, but that's just a difference in perception.

Also, Miles in his later years had quite a few songs with relative easier chord progresions to play over.
I like both his styles though, but before he went into a comfortable setting Miles was a practice maniac. There are still at best a handfull who can pull of an improv over giant steps like him.
RA  
23 Oct 2008 18:48 | Quote
Joined: 24 Sep 2008
United States
Karma: 16
speaking of "giant steps" that is one of my favorite standards i personally like the Trane's through. i'm a huge Trane fan
macandkanga  
23 Oct 2008 19:17 | Quote
Joined: 03 Oct 2008
United States
Karma: 21
I think listening before learning is also big help. When I listen to jazz I don't listen to it as background music. I actively listen to what's going so I can try and understand what mode changes are happening.

My favorite for this kind of listening is Miles Davis Kind of Blue.
JoeDalton  
24 Oct 2008 02:01 | Quote
Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Karma: 1
Coltrane is epic of course, there is actually a version of it on youtube that shows you the notes come up as they are being played, it's pretty cool.

Most giant steps covers are fails.
JazzMaverick  
24 Oct 2008 13:36 | Quote
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
United Kingdom
Lessons: 24
Licks: 37
Karma: 47
Moderator
George Benson will always be my favourite.

What do you guys think of Chick Corea? I love his music.
Empirism  
24 Oct 2008 13:52 | Quote
Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Finland
Lessons: 4
Karma: 35
Chick Corea? A legend.

Benson is also incredible. I think white rabbit is my favorite.
bodom  
24 Oct 2008 16:17 | Quote
Joined: way back
Canada
Lessons: 4
Karma: 5
Melodic minor(jazz minor)
As for chords... well I will just post one line of a song so you can see some chords. They are not your normal Maj min.

|-4/4-|-Bbmaj7#11-|-A7#9-|-D7(9)-Db9b5-|-C7add11-F7(b9)-|
(Song is called "Blue in Green")
macandkanga  
24 Oct 2008 18:43 | Quote
Joined: 03 Oct 2008
United States
Karma: 21
Chic Corea is beyond amazing. I think I mentioned in another post that I saw him with Return to Forever in July. Kareem Abdul Jabar intrduced them. I've seen a lot of concerts over the years but this was the best concert I've EVER been to.
JazzMaverick  
25 Oct 2008 09:52 | Quote
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
United Kingdom
Lessons: 24
Licks: 37
Karma: 47
Moderator
Yeah, I remember you saying that mac, that's awesome.

I'd love to see him live. He's been such an inspiration to me and I've followed his work since I first heard of him.
Empirism  
25 Oct 2008 11:41 | Quote
Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Finland
Lessons: 4
Karma: 35
If you are planning to move to play jazz with other musicians. I think you could try to find books of "jazz standards"

this one possible buy.
http://www.thomann.de/fi/ongarello_antonio_jazz_standards_for_guitar.htm

This is also great site.

http://www.jazzstandards.com/
JazzMaverick  
25 Oct 2008 11:48 | Quote
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
United Kingdom
Lessons: 24
Licks: 37
Karma: 47
Moderator
For Jazz Standards, I seriously recommend getting "The Real Book" collections along with "The Fake Book". They've got the perfect notated songs.
Empirism  
25 Oct 2008 11:53 | Quote
Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Finland
Lessons: 4
Karma: 35
Oh yeah, those are perfect!! I have that blues version and its really helpful... reason Im so addicted to blues :P
JPBeausoleil  
27 Oct 2008 10:59 | Quote
Joined: 29 Apr 2008
United States
Karma
I find in playing Jazz that it pays not to learn specific Jazz scales. Pretty much any scale can be a Jazz scale. What Really makes a Jazz scale is the attack, emphasis and the swing that is put on the notes not so much the notes themselves. Although long live the flatted 5th. Check out this website. It is the best one I have ever found as far as Jazz goes. Read all the chapters.... it is amazing and extremely helpful, for any Jazz musician beginner to advanced.

http://www.outsideshore.com/primer/primer/
exp  
28 Oct 2008 13:54 | Quote
Joined: 28 Oct 2008
Netherlands
Karma: 1
I recently started playing jazz seriously. I combine Jody Fishers books (Beginning/Intermediate/Mastering/Chord-melody Jazz Guitar) and Mark Dziubas "The Big Book of Jazz guitar Improvisastion". Both books are accompanied by cds with good backingtracks.
JoeDalton  
29 Oct 2008 04:16 | Quote
Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Karma: 1
The real books are a good idea, though more for overal musical development. Also since its a good idea to know jazz standards since in jazz jams sometimes you are expected to know them.
shredguitar17  
31 Oct 2008 03:13 | Quote
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
United States
Lessons: 2
Karma: 7
thanks to all I have checked out many of the sites and have come to the conclusion that you all were very correct, there really is no specific scale or chords (kinda) that can be a pre-emble to jazz. I think the best scales to use though (for me) are majors. So thank you everyone and I apoligize for my nieve self.

Oh p.s. exp, I love the profile picture. "The Dude" rules all.


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