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Should The mod on this site censor anything he deams offensive;innapropriate; etc.?

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telecrater  
3 Oct 2008 22:08 | Quote
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
United States
Lessons: 8
Karma: 13
did you read his post? It was the biggest pile of gibberish I have ever read, not to mention it was a waste of the 1's and 0's and mips used to server that page.

And Baudelaire, you make a good point, if I come to your house and start yelling and screaming and being an ass, you can kick me out. how is that different than "kicking the post out". the post was deleted because it was a nuisance. Not everything is being "censored" just the stupid stuff.

Your freedom of speech only last until you star infridging on someone elses rights.

We can talk about freedom of speech until your blue in the face, the fact of the matter is that you don't always have the right to be listened to. here we are in admins house, if he chose to delete a post that is his right. saying other wise is infringing on admins right to manage his property as he sees fit.

So whats the solution, that that "song" post it on your blogger site, or my space where you have control over it. buy your own web server and start your own site.
baudelaire  
3 Oct 2008 22:27 | Quote
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Brazil
Karma: 2
there is no "right to not be offended" or "right to hear what you want to hear". it doesn't exist.

if he wants to delete spam, fine. that's not speech, really.

if he wants to ban people, fine. not going to do much good though.

but taking a post, that is not intended as spam, and deleting it, is crossing the line.

we don't have a right to be listened to, but we don't have to listen to something we don't want to... no one is forcing anything on anyone here.

telecrater  
3 Oct 2008 23:03 | Quote
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
United States
Lessons: 8
Karma: 13
your missing the point, this is admins house he can do what ever he wants, he pays the server rent and built this site from scratch.

You keep talking about censorship and freedom of speech but remember the other rights too. And just became you have these right don't mean you can say anything you want. There are laws protecting individuals from speech. Ever heard of slander and libel?

I do not run my house as a democracy, I don't let my kid's vote on what's for dinner or when it's bed time. other wise they would have cake for dinner and bed time would be 4 am.

In fact I vote that this post gets deleted or as Baudelaire would say "Censored" it's not helping the site over all and frankly i tire of arguing with a bull headed person as fine as you. Your charming personality and your witty since of perspective makes me what to turd, so excuse me.

so like my steamy turd can someone "fush this post down"?

baudelaire  
4 Oct 2008 00:08 | Quote
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Brazil
Karma: 2
"your missing the point, this is admins house he can do what ever he wants, he pays the server rent and built this site from scratch."

you can't violate someone else's right, even in your own REAL house.

"You keep talking about censorship and freedom of speech but remember the other rights too. And just became you have these right don't mean you can say anything you want. There are laws protecting individuals from speech. Ever heard of slander and libel?"

yes, you CAN say whatever you want. first of all, show me how slander and libel are in any way related to anything that the admin would delete here; second of all, slander and libel are fuzzy laws, and are enforced only as far as actual damage can be proved, and as far as the calculated nature of the words to do said damage can be proved. third of all, there is no right protecting your feelings or dainty sensibilities; freedom comes with things such as being offended and aggravated. if i so desired, i could call black people ****s; i don't choose to, but i have every right to, and if someone doesn't like it, they don't have the right to silence me, they have the right to argue why they think i should not say it. freedom has no exceptions but where you take away someone else s freedom.

"I do not run my house as a democracy, I don't let my kid's vote on what's for dinner or when it's bed time. other wise they would have cake for dinner and bed time would be 4 am."

the child is not allowed positive rights until 18. the child is, essentially, property.

"In fact I vote that this post gets deleted or as Baudelaire would say "Censored" it's not helping the site over all and frankly i tire of arguing with a bull headed person as fine as you. Your charming personality and your witty since of perspective makes me what to turd, so excuse me."

woah woah woah, not helping the site? neither is your side of the argument, neither is the thread, and yet here we are, two humans involved in discourse, and your reaction is to whine to the mod that i be censored because you don't like what i have to say, and because of my 'charming personality'. you tire of arguing with someone that both disagrees with you, and intellectually, operates from basic postulates that you can undermine, but not come out in the open and disparage. see, communists and tyrants like you are careful to avoid the image of being opposed to the existence of everything they do not personally like, and so must find other means to silence all dissent and opposition. people like me will simply stand on what you don't dare to touch, and 'take the high road', and not resort to underhanded and dastardly tactics such as yours.

people like you say you like freedom, but when you see a free person, or a person using their freedom, you get angry or scared, and you try to shut them down, close them out, block them off. you say things like 'rights are limited'. you appeal to safety and efficiency, as if those are more important then freedom. it's really depressing.
BodomBeachTerror  
4 Oct 2008 00:58 | Quote
Joined: 27 May 2008
Canada
Lessons: 2
Licks: 1
Karma: 25
i think these posts are too long, im not reading this! =p
Admin  
4 Oct 2008 02:44 | Quote
Joined: way back
Latvia
Lessons: 2
Licks: 1
Karma: 27
The topic was deleted for "bad" language. That's all.
Ozzfan486  
4 Oct 2008 07:06 | Quote
Joined: 01 Oct 2008
United States
Licks: 1
Karma: 18
If I make it again and I don't cuss will it still be deleted?????
Ozzfan486  
4 Oct 2008 08:27 | Quote
Joined: 01 Oct 2008
United States
Licks: 1
Karma: 18
telecrater says:
so with your logic, it would be ok for me to come to your house where you pay rent and keep your stuff, and i could say what ever i want you and you have no rights to stop me.

Look you spoiled little brats, need to learn some respect for the work of others, especially with it's done is someone free time, and with our charge.


Yes it would be okay. And for the record, no one told him to go pay money to make this site, he did that by choice, personal decision, etc. He should know by now that NOBODY likes to be censored, let alone have their words permanently deleted because he see it "Unfit". No matter how petty or stupid it is, nobody should be silenced, it is your choice if you want to read it or not, AND you can call me a dip*** for posting it, but to totally wipe it out is un-needed.
baudelaire  
4 Oct 2008 09:54 | Quote
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Brazil
Karma: 2
"The topic was deleted for "bad" language. That's all."

you know where else "bad" language is censored? china and russia.

it's not anyones job to decide for another man if their language, words and though are bad.
joe  
4 Oct 2008 15:26 | Quote
Joined: 20 Aug 2007
United Kingdom
Karma: 1
its his site for crying out loud, he can censor what he wants to.

baudelaire  
4 Oct 2008 17:16 | Quote
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Brazil
Karma: 2
he CAN, but he does not have the right to. cops CAN beat a black person senseless and then plant crack on them, but they don't have the right to. NO ONE has the right to tell someone what to and not to say, under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. PERIOD.
bodom  
4 Oct 2008 17:33 | Quote
Joined: way back
Canada
Lessons: 4
Karma: 5
baudelaire shut the f@ck up Im sick of you. You are so pin eyed it isnt funny.
baudelaire  
4 Oct 2008 17:36 | Quote
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Brazil
Karma: 2
what, getting a little hot under the collar when freedom doesn't necessarily swing your way? i like your concise argument, by the way. very rational.
telecrater  
4 Oct 2008 19:25 | Quote
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
United States
Lessons: 8
Karma: 13
baudelaire says:
he CAN, but he does not have the right to. cops CAN beat a black person senseless and then plant crack on them, but they don't have the right to. NO ONE has the right to tell someone what to and not to say, under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. PERIOD.


Why bring race into this? why did you post "beat a black person" is it not unlawful for a cop to beat anyone senseless, regardless of race, sex or creed. are you raciest?

Besides if he really disenfranchised you or anyone else why don't you call a civil rights lawyer. I really want to hear him laugh at you. If fact please do record it, I want it to be my new ring tone.

baudelaire  
4 Oct 2008 20:17 | Quote
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Brazil
Karma: 2
nice try tele, but i think it's obvious why i said black person. because cops are ten times more likely to beat a black person and say they had drugs/a weapon then they are a white person. and they virtually ALWAYS get away with beating blacks, but whites have a chance.

i know, you finally thought you saw a chink in my armor. "that's it", you said, "i'll try to label him a racist! for saying things a racist would deny! oh, shoot, maybe i should have thought that one through better..."

and if i was really disenfranchised, i'd just DDOS the site... but i'm not that upset or that much of a ***, and i really like the site. besides, no real damage has been done to me, all i could manage to legally get was an apology.
TheAmericanBrit  
4 Oct 2008 20:41 | Quote
Joined: 03 Sep 2008
United States
Karma: 1
Depends on what's said. If someone is spewing some hate speech on another race, culture, etc. then it should be censored.

If it's a disagreement about politics and what not, then it shouldn't be censored.

For all of those who say "STOP THE CENSORSHIP!1!! ZOMG1!!", please remember that here is a line between good and evil.
baudelaire  
4 Oct 2008 20:50 | Quote
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Brazil
Karma: 2
hate speech shouldn't be censored. what if you're a racist? you still have the same rights as everyone else. freedom swings both ways. it can be dangerous, and it can be disturbing, but "he whom would trade a measure of safety for a measure of freedom deserves, and will recieve, neither" -benjamin franklin. "i may disagree with what you have to say, but i will defend to the death your right to say it" -voltaire.

there IS no line at which a right should cease to be exercised; even if it means people get hurt. the KKK has as much right to say what they want to say as the negro college fund organization thing has.
BodomBeachTerror  
4 Oct 2008 21:41 | Quote
Joined: 27 May 2008
Canada
Lessons: 2
Licks: 1
Karma: 25
sweet mother of cheese!!! every1 stop being so disagreeable!!!
Ozzfan486  
4 Oct 2008 21:44 | Quote
Joined: 01 Oct 2008
United States
Licks: 1
Karma: 18
BodomBeachTerror says:
sweet mother of cheese!!! every1 stop being so disagreeable!!!


I LOVE CHEESE TOO!!!!!! lol.

Seriously though, I'm never posting any of this **** again, even I'm tired of it.
telecrater  
4 Oct 2008 22:54 | Quote
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
United States
Lessons: 8
Karma: 13
ok fine baudelaire you win, your superior intellect and got me speechless, I just don't know what to say. So i bow down to you sand mutter these words...

I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy.
baudelaire  
4 Oct 2008 23:07 | Quote
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Brazil
Karma: 2
that's better!
TheAmericanBrit  
5 Oct 2008 03:33 | Quote
Joined: 03 Sep 2008
United States
Karma: 1
People like Baud are disgusting. They don't care if someone spreads love or hate, as long as they have the right to do so.

Let's make one thing clear: Hate is not something that should ever be allowed.

I seriously wonder if people like Baud can tell the difference between love and hate.


EDIT: And just because Benjamin Franklin said it doesn't mean it's right
jcb3000  
5 Oct 2008 04:40 | Quote
Joined: 09 Jul 2008
United Kingdom
Karma: 4
why oh why bring race into this? this is getting seriously blown out of proportion. and do you believe you can go around calling people hurtfull things just because you have the right? use that right dont abuse it. if you do then that makes you some sort of intolerant verbal sadist. might not be the right words there but i get what i mean.
sixtiesguy  
5 Oct 2008 06:49 | Quote
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
United Kingdom
Karma: 1
I think Admin (as it's his/her site) should make it quite clear what constitutes good and bad behaviour on the site.
I also think he/she should take necessary steps to remove continual trouble makers who might well be 'frightening off' quieter and perhaps more thoughtful members of the site by their overbearing behaviour.
In this way, the site might get back to what it was in the first place. A damn good place to learn guitar and get descent advice and encouragement!
ironman91313  
5 Oct 2008 07:08 | Quote
Joined: 18 Jun 2008
United States
Karma: 2
yes.
baudelaire  
5 Oct 2008 10:53 | Quote
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Brazil
Karma: 2
If you are not allowed to hate, you are not allowed to love, either. it's not a decision if you don't have a choice.if you choose to outlaw hatred from those that would express it, eventually love will outlawed as well. this is a pattern that every single tyrannical regime has followed through history; and it all starts with weak minded people that want someone else to protect them from free people, because people that use their freedoms scare and offend most people. Hate MUST be allowed - because you can never ban, 'just a few words'. the government will always take MORE and MORE.

yes, freedom is more important to me then safety, peace, or love. it's incomprehensible that it should be any other way. you can't define them anyways - to say that what you think is love is the only definition is narrow minded. what someone does, you may call hate, but they may call love. you, and no one else, admin or president, has the right to force THEIR MIND onto someone ELSES. this is why the KKK, the communists, the anarchists, the black panthers, the zionists, the american mujahideen, the Militia, this is why they have the right to exist - because just because YOU disagree, doesn't give you the right to CONDEMN and IMPRISON people that don't think JUST LIKE YOU.

and sixtiesguy? shutup - because i contribute more then you when the subject is on topic. people just become aghast when the subject goes off topic, and i defend myself instead of just mimicking everyone else. and i rarely ever TAKE it off topic. i can understand why your reaction would be to kill off the people that are different - you live in britain, where everyone peacefully accepted complete government surveillance, don't give a ** about your freedom, and oftentimes actually buy into the ridiculous propoganda they give you guys over there in Airstrip One.
bodom  
5 Oct 2008 14:42 | Quote
Joined: way back
Canada
Lessons: 4
Karma: 5
I have an idea.
Everyone just ignore baudelaire. Just dont comment on his posts.
JustJeff  
5 Oct 2008 14:56 | Quote
Joined: way back
United States
Lessons: 2
Karma: 21
baudelaire: There are no rights on the internet.

In order for their to be rights on the internet, it needs to be united under a common law. When you create law, you restrict the rights of the users.

Please prove a reliable source that proclaims that there are such rights on the internet.
sixtiesguy  
5 Oct 2008 15:35 | Quote
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
United Kingdom
Karma: 1
Bodom said:-

I have an idea.
Everyone just ignore baudelaire. Just dont comment on his posts.

Exactly what I proposed in a different thread when 'soap box sid' was getting on his high horse yet again! Take away his oxygen and you'll snuff out the flame.
JazzMaverick  
5 Oct 2008 16:00 | Quote
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
United Kingdom
Lessons: 24
Licks: 37
Karma: 47
Moderator
"There's a fine line between love and hate"

I don't think they're forcefully taking our freedom of speech away... just sort of ... blocking it. But some things are understandable to remove though, like someone saying "I ****ed your mom, you little B****". Though, everyone gets their own individual kicks out of something.

Eh, England's a disgrace to live in now, to be honest... There was some rule that was "supposed" to have come out saying we weren't allowed to show our own flag out our windows, or cars or pubs because it was racist to muslims. Thankfully, the second everyone started hearing this, we all started wearing our flag.

Though, it sickens me that something like that even came about. We can't even be proud for our own country anymore.

Since you were speaking of China... did you know that if you spit on the streets you spend the night in prison? Along with a massive fine.

Harsh country... might live there one day.
jcb3000  
5 Oct 2008 16:30 | Quote
Joined: 09 Jul 2008
United Kingdom
Karma: 4
like i said in my previous post, this is being blown way out of proportion to what it actually is. THIS IS A SMALL WEBSITE NOT A NATIONAL GOVERNMENT. who really actually cares that a couple of pointless posts got deleted in the first place? because this is what it's really about, not human rights and laws. main reasons why posts get deleted is because it is A)offensive to other people and B)pointless spamming. if this was not the case we would see this, what i must say is a brilliant site, turn into a ***hole like UG. just cut the crap with the whole moderator business and learn about and play on you bloody guitars.
sixtiesguy  
5 Oct 2008 17:33 | Quote
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
United Kingdom
Karma: 1
ATTENTION ADMIN !!!

Since the majority of us appear to be singing from the same hymn sheet, can we please have a directive or initiative to prevent further damage to this most excellent guitar website that YOU created?
baudelaire  
5 Oct 2008 17:48 | Quote
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Brazil
Karma: 2
justjeff: rights are not given by any law. rights are 'self evident', and born with every human. the law serves us, we do not serve the law. if the police came to burn your books, would you let them, just because it's the law, or would you shoot them/hide the books?

and yeah, sure it's nothing but a useful little website, but as long as we're discussing it, why not discuss it thoroughly? no one makes you read ANYTHING here, open ANY thread, or make ANY response!!!

and be more mature, too. don't get all pissy. if you don't like something, ignore it. if you A) don't agree with me and B) don't have a reasonable argument then just don't say anything, instead of hooting and hollering about how much you dislike me.
JustJeff  
5 Oct 2008 19:56 | Quote
Joined: way back
United States
Lessons: 2
Karma: 21
What would I do? I would hide them: Not because it is my right to keep them, but because I WANT to keep them.

There is a difference between what a right IS and what a right OUGHT to be.

You say that rights are self-evident, god given, and inalienable, however none of these are true. I will tackle the following one by one.

Self Evident Rights: Well, this one is sort of easy to follow. If a right was held to be self-evident, why are we fighting over it? Self evident is defined by dictionary.com as "evident in itself without proof or demonstration; axiomatic". If it is so evident without proof, why do we not all agree on this fact? Why are there countries that deny the rights that we have outlined as self-evident?

God-Given Rights: You will very rarely ever find a right that is described in the bible as something that we hold true today. Most rights described in the bible include slavery, and the Torah says it's okay to kill your children if they disrespected you. And if rights were so god-given, why did Judeo-christian culture start with theocracy, then move to monarchy, both of which are dictatorship? Many of the laws enacted by these dictatorships would cry human right abuse.

Inalienable: In order for rights to be inalienable (not alienable; not transferable to another or capable of being repudiated: inalienable rights, synonym is absolute), as defined, should not be able to be repudiated. However, many governments and organizations have restricted, or completely removed such rights from the people of the nation. So therefore, you cannot claim that the right is inalienable.

Now, by proving that your statement of rights being self-evident, inalienable, and god-given, as being wrong, we can now state that none of these are true. The fact that we are arguing about such a statement shows that they are not defined correctly.

Now, I am a libertarian, and I believe in the rights of the people, not because they are god-given or inalienable, but because that's how things OUGHT to be. There is a huge difference.
baudelaire  
5 Oct 2008 20:33 | Quote
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Brazil
Karma: 2
laws change, rights don't. the law OUGHT to support the right, it might not. but the right never changed, it was just criminalized to exercise it.

i only claimed rights are self evident; there really being only one right, that to do as you wish so long as you don't prevent others from doing so as well. as for why others may not believe so, i don't care - they are taught that way by societies and governments that prefer their own power and wealth to the good of mankind. but the belief that man ought to be free, in the greatest sense of the word, regardless of the power of tyrants and oppressive society, is self-evidently logically unassailable. and this imperative has occured in every culture even moderately advanced, even restrictive ones.

as for god given, one might say that god as a form of supernatural higher morality native to man might be considered to have 'given us' these rights. but not god in the sense of any religious figure of omnipotence, certainly not a specifically judeo-christian one. but the greatest moral imperative man has is to freedom, and freedom in this sense is a human construct. god is also a human construct, (probably), so it could indeed be termed as 'god given'.

inalienable? yes, it is. it can only be given away, not taken. when they threaten you with imprisonment if you don't surrender your books, you still have the option to fight to the death... we always have that option. give me liberty, or give me death... one of those is always possible. i will have my books, because i have the right to them, and if they tried taking them away, it would be my choice to either surrender my right to books, or to load my shotgun and die for my books.

they are indeed all of the above: self evident, 'god' given, and inalienable. you are making the mistake in this: our right's are IDEALS, they do not change. what is enforced and accepted change... but in china, in soviet russia, 200 years from now when earth is a cyberpunk dystopia, the IDEAL will still exist... man will still have the choice between freedom and death, so long as he is man. the laws OUGHT to defend our rights, but when they don't, the rights still exist, they merely become more dangerous to exercise.
telecrater  
5 Oct 2008 21:11 | Quote
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
United States
Lessons: 8
Karma: 13



Your right every one else is wrong. Need we say more?

les_paul  
5 Oct 2008 22:10 | Quote
Joined: 14 Feb 2008
United States
Lessons: 3
Licks: 2
Karma: 11
Not trying to be a prick but it is going to come out that way so what the hell. baudelaire you are an ass. this was an awesome site and you have destroyed it. I come here to talk to guitarists about music but always get caught up in some off topic bull *** arguing. It has become a huge waist of time. You slam everything you don't like including music from beginners which is just being a massive prick. I get a bad vibe every time I log in. There is no difference from this site and UG. I'm out. I will check in from time to time but I won't be active on this site until this stupid *** stops.

To the Admin:
Truly hate to leave a site with such great potential you have done a great job. I really hope thing turn around and you get your "guitar" site back.

To all my friends on this site:
I hope the best for you all.

Later,
TheAmericanBrit  
5 Oct 2008 22:11 | Quote
Joined: 03 Sep 2008
United States
Karma: 1
Later, Paul.
BodomBeachTerror  
5 Oct 2008 22:21 | Quote
Joined: 27 May 2008
Canada
Lessons: 2
Licks: 1
Karma: 25
yea this site was really awesome.. i dont even read most of the posts now, knowing theyre pointless
TheAmericanBrit  
5 Oct 2008 22:22 | Quote
Joined: 03 Sep 2008
United States
Karma: 1
Yeah. Look what you did, Phip...
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