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C phrygian

Music Theory
owensp  
30 Sep 2008 12:48 | Quote
Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Bermuda
Karma
I was jamming with my friend and he started playing two chords: d7 and g7. he alternated between the two and told me to solo in C phrygian. i am wondering why i was able to solo in a c scale when c was not even being played in the rhythm section. if you know more about this please give me a detailed lesson on it.
baudelaire  
30 Sep 2008 13:57 | Quote
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Brazil
Karma: 2
you'll learn more by figuring it out yourself. help you with this would be hurting you.
owensp  
30 Sep 2008 15:25 | Quote
Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Bermuda
Karma
k well then can someone tell me why i could solo in c when the chords being played were d and g?
KicknGuitar  
30 Sep 2008 15:29 | Quote
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Lessons: 6
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Depends on how he's being helped!
Certain people will have limits do to their experience or ways of thinking.

As for playing a C Phrygian over D7 and G7?! Thats news to me! It doesn't sound like it would work too well. A C7 and Fm7 would work I think...
After all, between the chords and the scale you only share the 1 (C) with D7 and the 4 (F) and 5 (G) with the G7. You have a lost of dissonance created with most of the other notes.

Are you sure it was Phrygian with a D7 and G7 or am I about to be schooled?
BodomBeachTerror  
30 Sep 2008 15:29 | Quote
Joined: 27 May 2008
Canada
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baud stop being a u-hole and tell him
baudelaire  
30 Sep 2008 17:23 | Quote
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Brazil
Karma: 2
sigh...

well, you could certainly solo in C over dm7 and g7. that would work great if you implied a 7sus4 over the g7 and then played around C, and you brought the g7 to a 6add9, you could solo over the dm7 without even changing the chord, and then do a falling 4th root movement to conclude the solo, take it on home.

but he must have meant E phrygian, not C. C phrygian doesn't even HAVE D in it. and no mode of C has D major... so he's just a idiot, either way. tell him to not suck so hard in the future.

and what the fuck is a u-hole?
league  
30 Sep 2008 17:53 | Quote
Joined: way back
United States
Lessons: 2
Karma: 10
Is there a video where someone explains this on guitar?

baudelaire  
30 Sep 2008 18:19 | Quote
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Brazil
Karma: 2
it's not a matter of guitar, it's a music issue. it's the same for piano, glockenspiel, piccolo, cello, and kazoo.
league  
30 Sep 2008 18:26 | Quote
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United States
Lessons: 2
Karma: 10
Yes, I understand now. I've been reading the Modes lessons.
RA  
30 Sep 2008 18:28 | Quote
Joined: 24 Sep 2008
United States
Karma: 16
well he is playing a simplified blues progression of just the V and I or the I and IV (can't tell which with just chords) it is common in blues and jazz to have just dominant 7ths chords and thus the whole progression is in a different keys the entire time. there is many different ways to handle this (hell there is whole books on it). to satisfy Baud.'s endless need to fellow the rules (there's a better word but it is the best word i got) you would play the different scales each time you would change chords. or you could get funky for lack of a better word and play something else. you friend just likes the dissonances of the scale. and playing in "c" would make it V and I. there is much much more to this playing (i made it simple) but i will leave that up to you to learn. however as Ted Greene says, Playing like is, is like having a meal full of spices, (the quote is altered because I'm going to look it up and i made it fit) basically saying don't over do it or it will sound like shit
BodomBeachTerror  
30 Sep 2008 19:47 | Quote
Joined: 27 May 2008
Canada
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baudelaire says:

and what the fuck is a u-hole?


wouldnt you like to know
TheAmericanBrit  
30 Sep 2008 20:17 | Quote
Joined: 03 Sep 2008
United States
Karma: 1
BodomBeachTerror says:

wouldnt you like to know


AHH, SNAP! Did you just make a FUNNY!?!?!?
KicknGuitar  
2 Oct 2008 10:33 | Quote
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Lessons: 6
Karma: 1
baudelaire says:
so he's just a idiot, either way. tell him to not suck so hard in the future.

I wonder how you were when you "sucked so hard."
No need to bring in the third-grade cooties war. You know better, at least I hope.

League,
You could also compare the notes in the scale to the chord although understanding the modes works similarly. If you can, practice each different mode emphasizing that root note in each and you'll hear a whole new world of music.
JazzMaverick  
2 Oct 2008 10:47 | Quote
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
United Kingdom
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Moderator
It can work... it's just kind of weird. It'd be better if you just complimented the chords rather than playing another mode. You're both learning, and it takes time. But compliment the chords next time you're jamming. I'm not saying you have to, but it's cooler and makes it sound amazing.

If you were playing C Phrygian, the key would be A♭... Then you technically shouldn't be able to use G7 since G is diminished (Locrian) in this key...

It's all down to ear and what you like, but I recommend complimenting those chords.
Davo  
2 Oct 2008 12:17 | Quote
Joined: way back
Canada
Karma
owensp says:
Copy and Paste quote here!


I had a longer explanation, but it failed to post.

As Beaudelaire tactlessly put it, those chords would technically put you closer to the key of C, and so E phrygian would be the appropriate scale... if you want to be a slave to diatonic thinking.

But lots of songs are not diatonic, and sometimes nondiatonic notes or scales or chords sound really good together... so the rule is: If it sounds good, it's right!

Its music after all, not math.

:-)
KicknGuitar  
2 Oct 2008 12:26 | Quote
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Lessons: 6
Karma: 1
JazzMaverick says:
It can work... it's just kind of weird.

Perfectly put.
RA  
2 Oct 2008 12:32 | Quote
Joined: 24 Sep 2008
United States
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DAvo that shit happens to me all the time i feel your pain
that's a nice why to look at it jazz didn't think of it with the accidental thank you. it seems I am stuck in Blues
JazzMaverick  
2 Oct 2008 12:45 | Quote
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Davo, the only issue there is that Phrygian is a minor position. So it'd be kind of strange to play it over the major. I mean it's possible if you want to add some chromatics, but make sure to emphasise what scale you're actually in, otherwise it'll technically be wrong.
RA  
2 Oct 2008 12:52 | Quote
Joined: 24 Sep 2008
United States
Karma: 16
i think his friend liked the sound of and it. and it is strange to play, and that is what it sounds like he was going for, strangeness. i mean there is songs that a based around the tritone and that is completely technically wrong. didn't P-funk have a song that kick ass with minors over majors???
owensp  
4 Oct 2008 07:44 | Quote
Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Bermuda
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it may not have been the phrygian maybe it was another one
owensp  
6 Oct 2008 16:23 | Quote
Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Bermuda
Karma
turns out it was c major
JazzMaverick  
7 Oct 2008 03:05 | Quote
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
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Moderator
Strange, Phrygian's a minor mode, weird that you'd play it over the major. Ah well though, as long as it sounds cool. Just try and understand what I mean though when I say compliment the chords, it'll help you out a lot and make you solos sound great.


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