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Economy Picking

Technique
shredder101  
11 Sep 2008 00:53 | Quote
Joined: way back
Karma: 1
Do you guys use economy or alternate picking? Which one's more comfortable? I use economy picking in speed licks (going up and down scales, three note per string patterns,etc.) and I use alternate picking in phrasing (blues licks,staccato,etc ).

P.S.: It's been a while since I last posted a topic, I was gone for like 4 months. LOL
BodomBeachTerror  
11 Sep 2008 01:04 | Quote
Joined: 27 May 2008
Canada
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Karma: 25
wuts the difference?
shredder101  
11 Sep 2008 01:18 | Quote
Joined: way back
Karma: 1
The thing in alternate picking that makes it hard for me is on shifting strings. I get confused whether to pick up or down. Economy picking is more easy IMO because you just have to pick down (if you go down into a scale)and pick up if you go back up to a scale. You just have to remember that when you shift to another string, you have to repeat your last picking stroke (which is easier compared to alternate picking). As what I've said, I only use economy picking for speed licks and use alternate in bluesy+staccato licks.

How about you BBT? Do you use economy picking?
BodomBeachTerror  
11 Sep 2008 01:50 | Quote
Joined: 27 May 2008
Canada
Lessons: 2
Licks: 1
Karma: 25
alternate.. i may unconsciously use economy picking lol
shredder101  
11 Sep 2008 02:53 | Quote
Joined: way back
Karma: 1
Oh, OK. :D
Phip  
11 Sep 2008 06:32 | Quote
Joined: 23 Dec 2007
United States
Lessons: 1
Karma: 45
Moderator
Hey Shredder,
Good to see you back.
As a general rule I try to altermate pick, but there are some songs where it doesn't work out smoothly so i break the rule. I read somewhere where the first note on any string should be a down stroke but again there are times where it's not practical. Do what you have to do to make the picking smooth.
So where you been?
Phip
telecrater  
11 Sep 2008 06:44 | Quote
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
United States
Lessons: 8
Karma: 13
I Economy pick all the time but i don't like the term Economy. I think it should be directional picking. I picked it up real quick.
Phip  
11 Sep 2008 08:55 | Quote
Joined: 23 Dec 2007
United States
Lessons: 1
Karma: 45
Moderator
@telecrater
Hmmmm, this is the first I've heard of economy picking. are there rules (i'm sure there must be)?
Phip
shredder101  
11 Sep 2008 09:37 | Quote
Joined: way back
Karma: 1
Thanks for the warm welcome Phip! :D
I think the article you read about picking down the first note on any string is about economy picking. I feel comfortable using economy picking in Paul Gilbert songs/solos (btw, he strongly recommends alternate picking in all of his instructional videos). But I still can get the rhythm and feel of his licks even if I use economy picking. I found this guy on youtube who explains the mechanics of economy picking, just copy the link cos' i don't know how to embed videos in posts =(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khtZx4tC9q8

Well, I've been busy on school work Phip!
I'm writing about "Sex Education in Schools" for my research paper in my "Research Writing" subject. (Phew!School Sucks!)
sixtiesguy  
11 Sep 2008 10:09 | Quote
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
United Kingdom
Karma: 1
@ Phip

Economy picking requires you to use hammer-ons and pull-offs instead of pick strokes where ever possible. With practice it can give you quite an edge re. speed. A word of warning though, the pull-offs make your finger tips real sore 'till they harden up. try soaking them in surgical spirit for a few mins each night (your fingertips that is!!).
JazzMaverick  
11 Sep 2008 14:12 | Quote
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
United Kingdom
Lessons: 24
Licks: 37
Karma: 47
Moderator
I'll just say to you all, learn them both and learn how to switch between them properly.

Economy picking is great (because I say so) but the MAJOR problem with it is that you won't ever be able to pick fast enough when doing things like arpeggios merging into melody or fast licks (and so on).

It's really important that you know how to do alternate picking and it's even better if you know how to do both and control switching between them. Trust me, it'll really help you all.
baudelaire  
11 Sep 2008 14:24 | Quote
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Brazil
Karma: 2
there is no reason to ever do anything but economy pick. economy picking is simply moving the pick the least possible distance, it will always be faster. the only perfect technique is economy picking with the ability to use your other fingers simultaneously, or fingerpicking for other styles.
telecrater  
11 Sep 2008 18:46 | Quote
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
United States
Lessons: 8
Karma: 13
economy picking is picking in the same direction your going.

for example if your picking 2 notes on the low e string and 2 notes on the a string. you would star on the e picking up (1st note) then pick down on e (2nd note) then in the same downward motion pick the a string (3rd note) then up again on a (4th note).

it's very closley related to alt picking but with alt picking you can end up going the wrong direciton for the next note.

some people consider sweep picking economy picking
JazzMaverick  
12 Sep 2008 07:29 | Quote
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
United Kingdom
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Moderator
This is the first time i'm going to disagree with you Baudelaire.

I love economy picking, but there are times when you're better off alternate picking. Economy limits you in so many ways. There might be a time where you need to pick up on the last time if you're going up (or down) the fret board again or moving sideways. Or if you're playing only two notes on one string, it slows you down, whereas merging both alternate and economy picking helps you to increase your speed even more.
baudelaire  
12 Sep 2008 14:06 | Quote
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Brazil
Karma: 2
playing a line on one string would be the exact same way with economy and alternate picking. i don't think you understand what economy picking is; it's merely moving the plectrum the least possible distance to pluck the string. alternate picking would at times have you cross a string, only to come back the other direction in order to pick it; economy picking would simply have you go straight to the string.

economy picking is alternate picking, only it's a more natural movement, and takes less time. there's no instance in which alternate picking is faster.
Veqq  
12 Sep 2008 14:17 | Quote
Joined: 18 May 2008
United States
Lessons: 2
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Baudelarie, your thinking of Directional picking, economy picking is when you pick 1 note per string, and use legato for the rest of it. Directional is just what your saying.
BodomBeachTerror  
12 Sep 2008 14:31 | Quote
Joined: 27 May 2008
Canada
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when u play 1 note then the rest legato thats legato.. cuz u havta pick at least 1 note or u wont get anything..

i think lol
baudelaire  
12 Sep 2008 15:20 | Quote
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Brazil
Karma: 2
i'm not so sure, veqq. but if that IS the case, then just pretend every where i wrote the word economy, it's actually directional.
BodomBeachTerror  
12 Sep 2008 15:27 | Quote
Joined: 27 May 2008
Canada
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and after that u can pretend that all of his posts have nothing to do with the topic, and not pay attention to anything he just said
Nutter166  
12 Sep 2008 15:31 | Quote
Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Wales
Licks: 2
Karma: 14
Agreed =]
Well thanks to the recent intrest in alt./eco.(or direct.) picking I came up with a short and in my opinion sweet lick to help me practice both and I find I do both at once, first string change I'll do it alt picking, next eco, then alt,eco,eco,alt,repeat start.
It's just very very comfterble and natural for me todo it that way.
BodomBeachTerror  
12 Sep 2008 15:35 | Quote
Joined: 27 May 2008
Canada
Lessons: 2
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starting on an upstroke confuses me O_O
JazzMaverick  
12 Sep 2008 15:58 | Quote
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
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Moderator
No guys, Baudelaire is right, it's economy.

(pretend we're playing the major scale - three notes per string)

Alternate:
going down- down, up, down, up, down, up... blah blah
going up- up, down, up, down, up, down, up...

Economy:
Going down- down, up, down, down, up, down, down... blah blah
going up - up, down, up, up, down, up, up, down...

Frank Gambale goes into more detail about this in one of his million videos on youtube if you're interested - who also goes into detail about it being a hindrance to only play economy. I honestly haven't got a clue which, because I didn't watch it, was only told about it.

Yeah Baudelaire, I know what it is, it's the only thing I do it by natural habit. I'm saying it out of my own experience - at certain times, it would really help you all if you learnt how to switch between the two. I don't mean to do alternate all the time.


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