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12 Bar Jazz Blues

Technique
JazzMaverick  
30 Aug 2008 15:12 | Quote
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I've been taught a few different ways how to play this, first learning the standard, one I messed around with and figured sounded nice, then one of which I've unfortunately forgotten...

So, the reason why I've written this is to ask, for those who know the 12 Bar Jazz Blues, how do you play it? What chords do you use?

I've learnt a nice Jazzy way to play this;
1 Bar of C7 13,
1 Bar of F7 9,
2 Bars of C7 13,
1 Bar of F7 9,
1 Bar of F#dim7,
1 Bar of C7 13,
1 Bar of Aaug7,
1 Bar of Dm7 9,
1 Bar of G7 13,
Half a bar of C7 9,
Half a bar of Aaug7,
Half a bar of Dm7 9,
Half a bar of G7 13...

...and repeat.

This is pretty fun to play around with. But Id like to learn more, mainly because Im keen on improvising around new chords, and understanding how to improvise around them.

Also, when improvising, how would you compliment these chords? I don't mind if you're not a jazz musician, I would just like to know your theory behind improvising.

baudelaire  
30 Aug 2008 15:24 | Quote
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Brazil
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with the more complex chords, i take the opposite of standard approach, and emphasize the basic important notes present - the triad - and use rhythm to provide the necessary variance for a good sounding improv, and i add passing tones not to compliment the chord, but to create tension that would be resolved at the next chord. in this, i draw inspiration from coltraines India, regarding his atonal, chromatic sliding melody that has no specific tonic itself, but creates a constantly rising and ebbing tension around a dynamic modulation, and yet the line retains its melody and identity because of skillfully placed triads on the beat, and chromatic passing tones.
JazzMaverick  
30 Aug 2008 16:23 | Quote
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baudelaire says:
i add passing tones not to compliment the chord, but to create tension that would be resolved at the next chord.


That is one thing I was never properly able to do, how they were able to improvise into another chord and suddenly resolve to this amazing sound and at the right time. I suppose this just comes with practice. But would you happen to have any practicing tips? I know learning licks and transcribing compositions is great for helping you know your way around while improvising, but is there anything else I should work on?

How do you see the instrument(s) you play while improvising?
baudelaire  
30 Aug 2008 16:49 | Quote
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what do you mean, "how do you see the instruments?"?

as for how to practice it, get a nice recorder, make a backing track, and improvise over it. record your improvs, and A/B them, compare, evaluate, repeat. i use a boss BR-532, it works brilliantly.
JazzMaverick  
31 Aug 2008 11:31 | Quote
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baudelaire says:
what do you mean, "how do you see the instruments?"?


Difficult to explain, but as most theoretical improvisers play, they can see exactly what they're going to play a few bars ahead of time.
I mainly mean; scales, modes, arpeggios, licks.

Gambale once said to see the guitar as one whole fret board.

Where as I see it with multiple values. Minor scale for example, on top of that i can see the harmonic, blues, pentatonic etc, giving me endless possibilities.

The reason I was asking was because I was just curious about how other people see it while improvising.
BodomBeachTerror  
31 Aug 2008 13:37 | Quote
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memorize scales and wut fret ur fingers go on
telecrater  
31 Aug 2008 14:03 | Quote
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Are you talking about when you listen to a backing track and visualize what should be played over those chords and then play it? I always try and hear what i'm going to play before i play it. Sometimes I can't quiet find the right note.
JazzMaverick  
31 Aug 2008 14:15 | Quote
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Yeah, usually I just try to sing and feel what I want to solo so I know what I want to play. (A starting point anyway). This helps prevent my solos from being that "scale" type solo. I have much to learn, but given that everyone starts somewhere, I'm not afraid to make mistakes.
JazzMaverick  
4 Sep 2008 10:59 | Quote
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So, does anyone have any other chords for this? Or Chord suggestions? :D
telecrater  
4 Sep 2008 22:03 | Quote
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I'm not quire ready for that progression, but i have this one i really like. It's out of the jazz book i'm working from but i can't stop playing it. I hope to try and improvise over it soon.

Fm7 - F#7 - Gm7 - C7 - Am7 - Dm7 - Gm7 - C7
JazzMaverick  
5 Sep 2008 07:26 | Quote
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Thanks Telecrater, I know those chords and each position, but I thank you for the progression. If you find anything else, please let me know :D
telecrater  
5 Sep 2008 22:47 | Quote
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I did not really want to start a new thread on this, so i though i would add it to this one.

When playing jazz do you use a pick or your fingers to pluck and strum?

The reason i ask is I have played electric with a pick acoustic with my fingers and a pick. some of the jazz type chords have a muted a strong that makes it tricky to strum but it's easier and sounds better (and jazzier) if i use my fingers to pluck them.

JazzMaverick  
6 Sep 2008 11:40 | Quote
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I use both, it's called the "Hybrid technique" hard work but man is it fun when you get the hang of it.

The idea of it orginated from country music, mainly in "chickin' pickin'". Which integrated playing with the fingers and the pick. Basically this gets you to also use the little finger. One of the most demanding aspects of this mode of playing is getting the 3rd and 4th finger to move independently.

But it's so beautiful when you use it for Jazz, I've seen so many jazz musicians use this technique - it really helps. In a sense, it also explains your problem with different tones.

RelaxedDude  
6 Sep 2008 17:29 | Quote
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Yah, Tommy Emmanuel does that type of picking

I have kinda of forgetten how to use a pick because Ive been using my fingers for so long XD
JazzMaverick  
6 Sep 2008 17:47 | Quote
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Don't worry about that, finger picking is amazing!
RelaxedDude  
6 Sep 2008 19:31 | Quote
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Hey so by the way, from your name Im going to take it that your a jazz player

Can you suggest me some chords that could enhance my jazz chord vocablulary =)
JazzMaverick  
7 Sep 2008 08:13 | Quote
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The chords I've put at the top of this topic are great for Jazz.

Some other chords could be:

Cdim
C#dim7
Cmaj7
C9
C13-9
C7sus4
A7+9
E7b5 (half diminished)
Aadd9maj6
Am6
A7sus
Gmaj6
G7
G7+5-9
G13
G7#11

These chords can be played on any note, these notes I've given are just suggestions.

I'm pretty sure that these chords can be put into the guitar chords thing at the top of the page. But if not, I'll scan them in and send them to you.
telecrater  
7 Sep 2008 09:04 | Quote
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I have just started working on learning some jazz (week or 2). I have been concentrating on 7th chords both major and minor.

I have been working out of this book...
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0015K97IU/

The information is great but the cd can be tough to follow and a little fast. It starts off working chord and gives you some great progressions to get your rhythm going the proceeds from there.

I also have been listening to nothing but jazz (they have a great jazz station in san antonio) I'm throwing a list of great jazz guitarists. I'm sure it's a pretty incomplete list but here goes.

Larry Carlton
Barney Kessel
Grant Green
Wes Montgomery
George Benson
Jeff Schroedl
Kenny Burrel
Pat Martino
Jim Hall
Tal Farlow


JazzMaverick  
7 Sep 2008 09:41 | Quote
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If you've got the rhythm right, and it's still a little too fast for you on the CD, just use the metronome: www.metronomeonline.com is a better one than this one in my opinion. From that, play a tempo that you're most comfortable with, then gradually build it up from there.

George Benson from you list is my favourite.

If you want some interesting and most memorable (for a damn good reason) Jazz artists, I recommend buying "The Real Book" all versions you can find. They're really good for chord progressions, and transcribing music. But these books are in notation, just a heads up. But man is it helpful when you get the hang of it.

Some other Jazz artists/bands:

Charlie Parker (He's the reason for Jazz!)
Louis Armstrong,
Dave Brubeck ("Take Five" is my favourite song)
Chick Corea,
Miles Davis,
Gerry Mulligan,
John Coltrane,
Duke Ellington,
Weather Report,
John McLaughlin,
Al de Meola,
Paco de Lucia,
Fourplay,
Dotsero,
Frank Gambale,
Herbie Hancock,
Jaco Pastorius,
Quincy Jones,

haha, the list could go on, but I'll restrain myself.

Anyway, if you're really going to hit into Jazz, I still think you should check out "The Jazz Theory Book" by Mark Levine. The thickest and best book I've ever bought.
RelaxedDude  
7 Sep 2008 12:25 | Quote
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Thanks for all the great suggestions, Ill start working on those chords and see if my local library has any of those books (cause Im a tad cheap, lol)
telecrater  
7 Sep 2008 12:54 | Quote
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Hey check out this site, I posted it before but you can dl some books (not that one) but there are some pdf books on chords. be patient it can take a while

http://guitarebooksforall.blogspot.com/

I can be cheap too but i sorta' have a book fetish. I love books
JazzMaverick  
7 Sep 2008 14:30 | Quote
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Don't worry so am I. I downloaded it when I first got it. But bought it once I had the money, because the auther does deserves his rightful earnings. Also did it out of respect, because it's an awesome book.
telecrater  
7 Sep 2008 17:06 | Quote
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true but sometimes you would like to spend some time with a book before you purchase its. I have a couple i found from this site that are in my amazon shopping cart.
JazzMaverick  
7 Sep 2008 17:11 | Quote
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Yeah, that's exactly what I do. Ebay's the way to go! :D or play.com
guitarmastergod  
26 Jan 2009 19:44 | Quote
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what does it mean when it says C7 13. what is the 13 for?
RA  
26 Jan 2009 19:50 | Quote
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could be a way of saying C13(C,E,G,Bb,D,F,A) or as i would write a C7/6(spoken as dominate 7th add 6th) notes being (C,E,G,Bb,A) but it being a 13 would seem to being having it a octave up but if you don't know already octaves are funny on a guitar

not to put words in your mouth jazz, feel free to delete it if it's not what you mean
JazzMaverick  
27 Jan 2009 12:18 | Quote
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Yeah, it's a major 6th, but an octave higher. It's called a Compound interval. Take a look at my lesson for that.

http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/lesson.php?id=103
RA  
27 Jan 2009 12:55 | Quote
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whats the reason for/why are they called Compound?
JazzMaverick  
27 Jan 2009 13:12 | Quote
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That's kind of similar to asking; "Why is a tree called a tree?" Just the way it is really.

It's compound because there's more than 1 note. It's another word for "combining" the notes together. Any easier? Within the lesson it uses Compound and then mentions the note after because that allows the musician to understand what type of compound.
RA  
27 Jan 2009 13:37 | Quote
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eh i don't like the terminology, but music theory is notorious for having one thing said in five different ways i find it best to learn them all then use the one/many that helps you understand it the best while still being correct. but now i know when someone says compound intervals i know what they mean.
JazzMaverick  
27 Jan 2009 15:21 | Quote
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Alright as long as I've explained that properly :)
guitarmastergod  
27 Jan 2009 16:06 | Quote
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i think i get it now, thanks RA and jazz
JazzMaverick  
1 Apr 2009 12:27 | Quote
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Bump for EMB, saves loads of topics being made.

The general idea for 12 Bar Blues is 12 bars of one key and repeat it. Basically I'm playing the exact same thing and just Jazzing it up.

The general chord phrasing (for everyone's sake we'll use the key of C) is:

C7 / F7 / C7 - Db7 / C7 / F7 / Gb7 / C7 / Em7 - Am7 / Dm7 / G7 / C7 / G7

It consists of a desirable progression in which case I've come across ones like: I-VI-II-V & III-VI-II-V & I-IV-II-V with passing chords in there to give it a grander feel.


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