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between b and c and e and f

Music Theory
goodtunes  
26 Jun 2008 16:42 | Quote
Joined: 09 Feb 2008
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can someone tell me why there is no sharps or flats between b-c and e-f. is that just the way the music gods made it? or is it just the way the notes were named a long time ago? ???
blackholesun  
26 Jun 2008 16:52 | Quote
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It's just the way the notes were named.

If you compare the interval between B and C to the interval between C and C#, you'll see that it is the same (a semi tone)
RelaxedDude  
26 Jun 2008 22:46 | Quote
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It all goes back to the Greek way that they classified music.

I dont remember it all, but theres a mathamatical formula and it makes it so that there are no B or E sharps.

If your that interested, google it
Skold  
27 Jun 2008 01:56 | Quote
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
United States
Karma: 3
RelaxedDude says:
It all goes back to the Greek way that they classified music.

I dont remember it all, but theres a mathamatical formula and it makes it so that there are no B or E sharps.


Vs. the religious view on the subject: God did it.
BodomBeachTerror  
27 Jun 2008 02:03 | Quote
Joined: 27 May 2008
Canada
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Skold says:

Vs. the religious view on the subject: God did it.


that could be rather offensive =p
Skold  
27 Jun 2008 02:13 | Quote
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
United States
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Hell, I work in a Christian church.
goodtunes  
27 Jun 2008 11:36 | Quote
Joined: 09 Feb 2008
United States
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thanx for all the replies. i kinda been infused with a little bit of inspiration since this guy came over to the house the other day and was shredding the fretboard to hell and back. All metal songs i grew up with he could do em all and well. he was telling me a few things that made some of the theory stuff i have seen others on here talk about click. and i got a new dvd video that is an intro to theory and its pretty informative.

maybe i will actually start to consistently practice a bit each day instead of just strumming the few little song rythms i know which aint makin me any better.
Afro_Raven  
28 Jun 2008 09:39 | Quote
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Actually there is such a thing as B# and E# - try checking out the key signatures for F#major and C#major. But enharmonically these are simply B#=C and E#=F. Yeah it is simply how the greek mathematicians and theorists chose to organise tonal ranges way back when!

Afro
Skold  
28 Jun 2008 15:35 | Quote
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
United States
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Aren't those the same people who thought the earth was flat? Maybe we should re-analyze their theories on this matter...
blackholesun  
28 Jun 2008 16:59 | Quote
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No, because there's solid proof that the Earth isn't flat. Give me proof that 12 tone equal temperament doesn't work, and that last post might not be as useless...
Skold  
28 Jun 2008 19:39 | Quote
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
United States
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I was joking, so stop being a little cunny.
league  
28 Jun 2008 20:50 | Quote
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I think it was a Spaniard in like Medieval times that developed the 12 note system. Other cultures have different ways of measuring and organizing music.
blackholesun  
28 Jun 2008 21:26 | Quote
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Yeah, the two main systems in Western Music are 12 tone equal temperament (12-TET) and just intonation. Just intonation is based on ratios between frequencies (perfect 5th = 3/2, for example), but different keys have dissonant intervals in various places, so to change key you would have to retune your instrument! There are other forms of equal temperament as league said. Arabs use 24-TET, Gamalan music from Indonesia uses either 5 or 7-TET, depending on whether they want to use the Pelog or Slendro scale.

12-TET, unlike JI, doesn't create exactly perfect intervals, but it is used because it is a compromise between versitility (it can be used in any key, on any instrument) and not being too complex (31-TET follows JI very well, but can you imagine a chromatic scale with 31 notes in it?!). Even better is 72-TET, but that's just getting silly!

And once again, Skold is calling people genitalia.
GRX40  
28 Jun 2008 21:52 | Quote
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United States
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blackholesun says:
so to change key you would have to retune your instrument!

Yeah, my music teacher at school was telling us about that. He said back in the 1700s and stuff, a piano was tuned only to play in one key, but it would play that key perfectly.

So I guess that's why a lot of concertos and classical music pieces have their key in the title (example: Pachelbel's Canon in D). That way, you would know what to tune your piano or harpsichord or whatever to, so you could play the piece in the correct key.

But now most instruments have a compromised tuning system, so you can play in any key without changing tunings. I'm not really sure how it works, but I guess I kind of understand it.


Skold  
28 Jun 2008 23:15 | Quote
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
United States
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Simply because you decided to start acting like one.

It amazes me the things that people were doing back then without the technology we use now.

Honestly, the people of those ages were some of the most brilliant.

blackholesun  
29 Jun 2008 04:23 | Quote
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GRX40 says:
So I guess that's why a lot of concertos and classical music pieces have their key in the title (example: Pachelbel's Canon in D).


Possibly, although it's probably more because back then (and really until the 20th century as far as I know) composition titles were somewhat ordinary - Toccata in C, Canon in D, etc. Adding the key to the title helps to differentiate it from similar types of composition (canon, concerto, toccata, fugue, etc) by the same composer, but in a different key.

The reason I said what I said skold is because goodtunes asked a very good question, and some people had replied with the right answer, and then you tried to upset things by suggesting God did it, and then you suggest that we should "re-analyze their theories on this matter", which once again is posting against the flow of the thread, and possibly making poor goodtunes even more confused than he was at the start! Poor little hamster!
goodtunes  
30 Jun 2008 17:10 | Quote
Joined: 09 Feb 2008
United States
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lol i am glad i asked a good question. when yall pointed that b to c and e to f was just a half step it now makes since how the c major scale has no sharps or flats. because the ww h www h formula makes the half steps line up with e and b. so this has helped me understand the theory behind scales and chords much better.
BodomBeachTerror  
1 Jul 2008 18:49 | Quote
Joined: 27 May 2008
Canada
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A WIZARD DID IT! D=
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